Amway: The Untold Story

Get a Life!

Hi Sydney,

I am glad to have found your web page on Amway. Just last week I was invited to an Amway meeting here in Raleigh, NC. Before I was invited to this meeting I had lunch with the Amway representative (thought I did not know *what* business he was in). He explained all the products they sell and dropped big names like MCI, Sony…you get the picture. Something about it sounded strangly familiar but I did not know what it was. He never told me it was Amway. A red flag went up when I asked to have the pamphlet that he was reciting from. He game me some line about "I can't do it because of Federal regulations." I thought "what has he got to hide?".

I attended the meeting and of course I was asked to sit in the front of the room. The guy doing the speaking was an ex-car salesman which made me feel a bit uneasy right there. The bulk of the meeting was spent dredging up the newbies' so-called "lost dreams". It was nauseating. This meeting gave a new meaning to the Golden Calf. I deliberatly did not make eye-contact with this slippery eel because I would have told him exactly what I thought of the whole thing. But, I didn't want to make a scene. One poor fellow was asked: "What would you like to have that you don't have now?". The guy responded by saying "I really don't need anything that I can think of." For this, he was all but hissed down and the speaker said "Sombody check his pulse to see if he's alive!" Laughter ensued, of course. It was shameful. I almost felt dirty just being there.

All of this went on for about 40 minutes. Not until *the last 20 minutes* did the speaker reveal that it was Amway. Red flag #2. Why didn't he just come right out and say it from the get-go? I know why. They pump you up, make you feel like a loser trodden down by "corporate America". And that, although your *dreams* may have died on the vine, there is hope, the Church Universal of Amway International!. But only to a priveldged few mind you. Yep, lucky me!

A friend of mine was in Anway about 6 years ago. Now, I remember why it all sounded familiar to me. I also remember that there was a bit of the "gospel" preached there too. Not the genuine article of course. I am also familiar with the "prosperity gospel" and saw alot of similarities between Amway and their (health and weath leader's) teachings.

I still have the guy's materials, including the videotape. Talk about shameless, self-indulgence! It was titled "Britt/Miller Diamond Lifestyles" . Heard of it? One particularly obnoxious chap on this tape in an attempt to *pump up* the viewing audience said: "You can do it, all you have to do is *confess* it and it will be yours." Confess it? Hmm, that sounds like Name it and claim it talk to me! I guess chating your way to sucess would work too. Must have something to do with demographics!

I am a Christian myself and I find it revolting that these people are using Christs' name to give it an aire of spirituality. Wolves in sheeps clothing ? I think so. But then, there's nothing new about that.

Anyway, great work on your web page. I am going to be talking to the Amway guy next week to give him back his material. Sad though, he seems like a really nice guy. I already told him I'm not interested. But when I meet with him next week, I will tell him what I think of it. For his sake, not mine. Having dealt with cult members in the past I know that this will probably just go in one ear and out the other. But he might not be in deep enough yet.

Take care, keep up the good work!

I have been reading the articles in your homepage extensively. I live in *** Ontario. I have a sister living in *** British Columbia.

I spoke to my sister on the phone approximately one month ago at which point she mentioned a friend of many years had been calling her about joining Amway. I warned her of the little I knew about it as I had a friend who had joined, lost many friends and quit. Since then I have been approached to attend a meeting about a business opportunity. My boyfriend and I both attended but were suspicious that it was Amway. We felt that the presenter was insulting our intelligence with his "psycho-babble".

One comment that was made was the changes that had taken place in the company recently and that it is not the same as in the past. Have there been any positive changes that would make Amway more credible than 4 or 5 years ago?

I saw all your negative comments about the Amway Business....are you one of the many unsuccessfull ex- distributors?

your an ass whole loser....broke I'm sure....to bad those bad tapes and functions saved my life along with 400 of my distributers.

your page is done in a manner that is typical of someone who failed in their attempt in thr Amway business. It's people like you that make people like me look dishonest and deceiving. Thank you for your inspiration to build my business larger and prove jerks like you wrong.

My dear friend!

I emmigrated from Russia and when I read your quate from Phil Kerns's book it remind me the party meetings during Communist era. A MOB is a MOB. So much trash on the NET but I was lucky to find your page.Maybe it can help to open eyes of these fanatics who beilive in MLM.By the way, is there a newsgrup on the NET where this kind of opinion is shared? It would be a pleasure to talk to you.

My best regards.

Dear Mr. Schwartz,

I am intrigued by your effors and your interests in criticizing the Amway business. Beleieve me I am taking note very closley and I sincerely appreciate the effort!

I am however not as hasty to buy into this cultism/scam/manipuation bit. Sure there are some bad apples out there who no nothing of the etiquette of professionalism. That etiquette should apply to any business. To succeed a bussiness needs to be professional in approach, conudct and opperation is key to any bussiness.

It is obvious that these people who have the bad taste in their mouths were wrongly treated in a non- professional manner. These responses from people who felt pressure to be on SOT or attend 'functions' are the same if somebody went to a car dealer and got the same treatment and pressure. But you hear nothing on that.

As far as loosing money, I think one should consider liability here. Being a distributor I know that I could go out and rack up a bunch of credit card debt to build this business. Common sense ( which in some cases should'nt be called common b/c it isn't common) tells me that risk in necesary to get ahead but not to such an extreme. Even so, the liability i incurr on those expences is significantly less that being liable for $300,000 for a doughnut franchise. It would take me about 5-7 years to see any real profit.

I am not trying to convice anybody but I thing a deductive look at the business…any business would prove to be more beneficial in this discusion.

As well I do not support the extatic emotional speeches made by proponents of the Amway business. It does not show profesional conduct or even mature conduct for that matter.

Thanks

Hi Sidney,

I'll try to keep this from being too long as you probably get plenty of email already.

First, I want to again thank you for your comments and your informative website.

My initial examination of Amway was to see how challenging it would be to overcome the average performances to replace my current income. With some work and care, I expected to replace my job within five years. I still believe that it may be possible to do that.

But the issue of the earnings from the tools and seminars has turned my situation from a mere challenge against the numbers to a moral decision. How can I promote an upline that practices such deceit? If I do, I'm perpetuating the problem. Since I wouldn't buy the Standing Order Tapes and would avoid attending the seminars, I may not get much help from my upline.

And there isn't much of anything I can do about Amway's prices except shop elsewhere.

I'm disappointed. Like many others, I saw something wonderful in the Amway dream. Yet my perception of that dream now reveals a nightmare for those who would be gullible. Even now, I'd love to find a copy of Amway without the flaws.

Also, Amway's SA-4400 indirectly states that 54% of all distributors are inactive. But Amway requires distributors to re-register each year, which I suspect won't be done by the inactive distributors, so it isn't much of a stretch to believe that Amway endures something like a 50% turnover in distributors every year! It boggles my mind that Amway is willing to waste that much effort, naturally done mostly by the lower level distributors. Is it any wonder that Amway has a poor reputation at meeting expectations?

Thanks for your efforts to keep information on the issues available for the curious.

Hi Sidney,

I just wanted to let you know that I will be sending you information on how my buisness is growing from time to time and some of the experiences of the process and the experience. I will keep the information centered on a non- biased point of view as much as possible, even though it may be challenging at times due to the fact that I am an Amway distributor.

I spent a great deal of time reading through the information. Although I did not get through it all, I felt that there were feelings presented that were not productive for someone wishing to start their own Amway distributorship. I am not saying that these are not necessary, but the views and experiences presented are for the most part from persons never involved with or no longer involved with an Amway distributor network. I wish to add my experiences from a point of view of complete commitment and as much as possible a nonbiased point of view. It is my hope that a more complete picture can be provided from this web site so that Amway distributors in the future can reference this site without worry of scaring productive persons into not building a distributorship.

Hi,

Thank you for being here!! I almost got into the business this week, but after reading the "tools scam" part of your page alot of things are starting to make sense. Can you recommend any other readings so i can really feel good about bailing out of this potential nightmare. Thanks for your help!

Hello Sidney,

I know I just wrote to you earlier but I think I must be experiencing some kind of catharsis so bear with me! I just read installment 5 of the letters (including my own long one!) and I'd just like to say this to the really irate Pro-Amway writers:

Please try to accept the fact that people are telling the truth here. You may be happy with your line of sponsorship, the products, the tools, the way you do what you do, and that's fine. But people who are _not_ happy are not lying, nor are they in any way lacking, and your comments about "Get a life" and "Dream stealer" are not constructive. Please try to see through the conditioned responses you may have been taught. I've been thinking a lot about this as I read all the letters, and I realised that I _HAVE_ a life already, and it is one that I like. I'm not at all convinced that being involved with Amway has made it better; in fact, in some ways it has made it much less pleasant!

I'm not sure that more money is really the answer, either, and like many people who have written in, a lot of the blatant materialism turns me off. I can also see that for some people, this business makes an enormous difference and improves their lives. Do you think that I _grudge_ them that?! In no way! But I know that the methods I was being taught by my particular line of sponsorship made me uneasy and seemed unethical and dishonest. In the end, I could not use them. If I find an honest way to built the business, I'll let you all know.

There are two other things I've also come to realise that I think are worth mentioning: (1) I felt this business slowly separating me from my husband, which is the last thing in the world that I want to happen, and (2) I'm a registered independent, pro-choice, well-educated woman striving to make the world more fair for other women. I don't see any place for me in Amway.

I know it is hard to come here [if you are an Amway distributor who is happy with your business and your relationship with your up- and downlines] and see your business attacked. You feel angry and you want to defend it. But it isn't fair to categorize every person who has written here with less than flattering stories to relate about Amway as being a disgruntled ex-distributor who thought it was a get rich quick scheme and didn't want to work hard to make it work. I didn't think that at all when I got in. However, I noticed quickly that the 6-8 hours initially mentioned turned into 10-20 if I really wanted to succeed. So please try to be open minded when you read of other peoples' experiences. If nothing else, you should be glad that your own particular line of sponsorship is not riddled with these problems.

This is getting long again and I must go. One last thing: several people have said here that they don't care that their upline diamonds etc make most of their money off tapes, books and rallies. I must disagree - I was willing to listen to them when I thought they were making money by consuming and selling Amway products, because that's what they were telling _ME_ to do to become like them. But if they dont' actually make their money that way, then why should I emulate them? The market for the books and tapes may be vast but the market for the suppliers thereof is mighty small. I have no business training whatsoever (even after listening to all those tapes....) but even I can figure _that_ out.

So everyone, chill out. And Sidney, thanks.

Amway is in the news again. The Britt/Yager lawsuit is escalating. I was part of Amway in the early 1980's. My husband and I dropped out, because we didn't like the push and the newspaper reports about Canada, fraud and cultism.

When we left "the business," we vowed to check our upline throughout the years. During the rallies and seminars, we listened to what the speakers said and the trends they predicted. Amazingly enough, most of the things came true. They said companies would cut back and new technologies would be used. They said people would be materialistic, but would come back to the basics like family, etc. In addition, they said more divorces would occur. Also, hard times were coming and we need to prepared. They said with jobs being cut, you need an alternative to your 9-5 job. We thought these leaders were saying this to get us motivated to do the business. Just hype, nothing else.

When the Yager built his business, he examined profiles of various successful people and recommended books and tapes to people. His message was that you are not alone building this business. It was an entirely new concept, but not so new. As more people became successful in Amway, he took those tapes and books to motivate other people. When I started in Amway, I thought this was fine - I listened to the tapes and read the books. Even though I did this, we were not successful. The reason why - we were scared. I knew that listening and reading in addition to working this plan would build this business. Also, I knew I had to treat this business as a business, not a hobby. I learned from Amway to believe in products. That makes it easier to sell things. In a recent Demographic magazine article about Pudding people - average people like Mary Kay and Amway.

During the time we left the business (over 13 years), I compared various businesses (such as insurance companies, cosmetics, encyclopedia and other MLM) and their practices. I have been to other sales meetings, rallies, seminars during this exploration. Amazingly enough, all of these other firms recommend reading books, listening to tapes, watching videos, etc. There was hugging, even pushing to do the business. An encyclopedia firm always wanted you to attend functions in other areas (such as Milwaukee - we live in Madison) and they said you needed to be with successful people to get motivated. They all recommended a lifestyle change which would program you to be successful. Most had books, videos, and tapes that you could buy to program you for success. All told you to buy and use the product in order to sell it. Most claimed their brand superior to brand X. Some even recommended to bring a tape player along to record what was said at seminar and rallies. Most had slogans and pep rallies (See Forbes magazine, 11/22/93). All of these were recommended by Amway. I don't know which came first - if Amway was the one to set up these types of programs (rallies, seminars, tapes, books) or if Yager copied this idea from someone else.

Avon kept telling me to buy more to get to the next level and to keep lots of products in stock. Amway never did - they said to only buy what you can afford. Amway said that you can ask people to join the business, and if they are not interested, ask them to be customers. In addition, the prices I have seen in the Amway catalogs, are prices that I have seen in Sears, JC Penney, Lands' End, and other catalogs. Avon has a marketing plan similar to Amway's. In the ten years, I was an Avon representative, they never told me what the average representative makes. In fact, in the classifieds ads, they say representatives make an ave $8-$14 an hour. I haven't seen anyone who makes this much in Avon. Most of the representatives I know purchase most of the products for themselves. Most people in Avon spend more buying samples, demos, products, and brochures, etc, than making money. Avon managers told me that you have to pay out a lot of money to make money. Most representatives quit. The commission levels changes every few years, and representatives lose more money. I would be curious to know how many representatives quit. I sponsored 6 people and they all quit within months after starting.

I've been insurance as well, commissions are going down. The home offices are getting telemarketers to do all the work. You have to contact a lot of people to make a little money. They tell you to attend seminars to learn about the business. Ironically enough, practically everything that I learned I learned it when I was in Amway. The cost for materials - books and tapes were hundreds of dollars for a few tapes (most about 10 tapes). I have no idea what an average insurance agent makes. I can tell you though most quit.

These are but a few of the organizations I dealt with.

With the Yager/Britt organization lawsuit, I think it is frivolous. They recommend you buy books and tapes to let you learn first hand how other people succeeded. I wonder if these people who filed this lawsuit attended other sales meetings, and rallies. What I saw at these other meetings are the same things, I saw at Amway rallies and meetings. In addition, most of those other organizations, charged sky high prices for materials and they said these materials were discounted and tax-deductible. Are these other organizations guilty of the same things that are listed in the lawsuit? Can I sue the insurance industry, Avon, and a host of other companies for not telling me about the dollars spent on starting and maintaining a business? Is Avon a pyramid scheme with the new marketing plan because there is no customer requirements? Can I sue Avon for being hard to keep representatives? In the an Working Woman article, they said the dropout rate for Avon is 150%. In Amway, it is 50%.

Could you find out how many drop out of being insurance salespeople? What is the average earnings of Avon representatives and other multi-level marketing organizations? When were these articles and surveys done? I find a lot of articles in your information that is old and outdated. Could you find me recent information? I am asking these questions because these are similar to what was mentioned in other articles and in the lawsuit.

If you need further details or questions, please contact me.

P. S. Currently, we are not an Amway distributor. I just wanted to give a objective viewpoint because we have been involved in other areas.

Good Job!

The Top People are going about it a bit different today,but it still is the same as it always was .I was approched recently to JOIN UP I looked at the info and was impressed at how much money I could make doing next to little and spending no money at all,until I got the whole PITCH .Thanx..

Dear sid,

I think you have wasted a lot of effort slamming a truley real opportunity.I think perhaps you were someone who failed simply because you quit which is the case most of the time.I'm not saying that there aren't people who misrepresent Amway, but I also hear there are alot of bad lawyers ,doctors ,police congressman, mothers , fathers , kids , teachers, preists, boy scout,girl scout leaders, nurses, fireman, carpenters, bartenders, pro athelets, actors, fisherman, coaches, muslem, catholics, baptists, germans, asians, croats, bosnians, arabs, jews, store clerks, managers, waiters, waitereses, fuller brush people, landscapers, mechanics, pilots, directors, and yes the list goes on .I guess perhaps the real problem within the human spirit,who do we believe a filthy stinking rich Amway distributor who not only offers to help someone like me who is excited about life and all it has to offer,who gives more to charities like easter seals in one year than I've yet to make in my lifetime,who says you can do it but you'll work harder at this than anything else you've done,or should I by a Subway franchise and invest about $75,000 work seventy ninety hours for five years and if I'm not in bankrupsy maybe make my investment back? By the way I'm not slamming Subway but I'm sure you get my point.I also know I couldn't change your feelings about free enterprise and all it has to offer,so i'll leave you to box of negative tissues and all of your other forever to be dependent on each others insignificance.STAY BROKE WITHOUT SOAP!!

Mr. Schwartz,

I am a new Amway distributor making about $1000.00 a month. I have been in for about 3 1/2 months. If this is such a pharse then why are people in my group making this kind of money. My upline Ruby has been in less than 1 1/2 years and is making over $100,000. Tell me why this is bad? Also tell me your experience with Amway? Please write back because I figure someone like you probably wouldn't just because you feel you are too good to.

Dear Mr. Schwartz,

May I start with my first comment of how my theory of the WWW via Internet is true. Both as a human, and as a Christian, my theory was a question that asked: "What good could possibly come out of this 'Super Information Highway / Internet' ?" Thank you for helping me find a "realistic" answer to that question. "Nothing!".. PERIOD, enough said. Now allow me to clearify myself before you jump to conclusions. I RESPECT YOUR OPTINIONS AND COMMENTS as one individual to another. Now that I have gotten that out of the way. Let me explain why you have help me establish why I feel that nothing good can come out of this so called "WWW". In my opinion were all winners, whether we work jobs; are involved in Amway; doing Excell, MelaLuka, STS, Herbelife, or any of the "HUNDREDS" of different MLM, or Multi- Level-Marketing "Programs" out there. OK? Second of all, it's bad enough that people face various challanges every day with out having to be "insulted", "degraded", "joked-at", "grouped", "be-littled", or "demeaned" in any other possible way out there for making decisions in their lives. Don't get me wrong, I RESPECT YOUR OPINIONS. I just don't feel that WWW page(s) such as these and others out there really benifit people in a "positive" way. Once again, I remind you that that is my opinion and solely my opinion. No pressure for you to be "grouped" with other individuals in society that are truly out to harm others for their "enjoyment". I have read the articles, listened to the news, and now that I have had a taste of this "World Wide Web", I am not impressed. I support the individuals who have chosen to take a career in the AMWAY playing field. They are adults, let them try and succeed as they choose to, not swaying opinions one way or the other. As for the LEADERS in the BRITT & YEAGER organizations; they're adults too, allow them to face their challanges privately, as you would wish to face your challanges too. As for those who were "miss-informed" about the success ratio, you guessed it, they too are adults; allow them to be held accountable for their own decisions, good or bad, and not blame them on a company and some "distributors". Let us not forget, we're all human. As for those who use scriptures to smite others, who in their opinion are wrong, I have but one bit of learned advice: "STUDY IT, before you speak it". My only hope is that I might be wrong about "nothing" good coming out of the WWW via the Internet. I will, for the time being, continue to "surf" the Internet for a sign of a POSITIVE impact on people. Once again, what I have written to you is my opinion and my opinion only. Thank you for your time in reading this E-Mail, and good luck in you impact on people world wide, whether good or bad, in YOUR opinion.

Sincerely, WWW user

Mr. Schwartz,

One thing I would like to see on future home pages of yours, is the "Untold"stories on other MLM companies such as Excel, Jewelway (really being investigated by Attorney General right now), Newskin, Herba-life, etc. I feel that you would benifit us all by not just being partial to "exposing" Amway. Take a shot at the rest. You might like it too.

Oh, how excited I am to find your Web page! I have been hounded for years by total strangers to join the Amway pyramid. Now, I have two family members involved in this scam.

My wife's family is quite large with 10 brothers and sisters and their children's children. Unfortunately, my eldest brother-in-law got hooked into Amway 2 years ago. Since then he has pressured myself and every family member to join. Fortunately, they have declined. But my retired mother-in-law was convinced by her son to join.

I love them both. Do you have any suggestions about how to help my mother-in-law from eventual disappointment?

Again, thanks for your Web page. It is indeed to public service.

Great Site.

I work with a guy who is going to hit me with some brochures next week. And this from a guy who confessed he'd been in Amway *before* and told me how many friends he'd lost.

It appears he's gotten back into it and forgotten he told me what a crock it was. This will prove interesting.

He hasn't told me this time around it is Amway, I've just heard from someone else he's into it. I'll let him try and sell me on it and see what transpires. If anything notable happens I'll pass it on.

I liked your price comparison. I had a look around the Amway site but all I could find was a lot of smoke and mirrors. The 'new products' section rambled about products but didn't actually point any out. They could certainly do a lot better than they have with their web page.

Sidney,

You've obviously done your homework and documented your claims well.

I did however, see 4 items that I would like to bring to your attention.

1. Much of your information is VERY old. You have quoted articles and postings as old as 1979. The Amway business has changed considerable since this time, even just in the last 5-6 years. Amway's growth over the last 5 years alone has surpassed its combined revenues for the previous 30 years. This evidence should be enough to persuade any skeptic that someone is doing something right.

2. You have quoted mostly outsiders and former distributors. I saw little if any information from current distributors. You could do this same kind of study on IBM, Dupont, or any other major company and find many negative comments from former employees, executives, or journalists. I think your information looses credibility when you don't include interviews or comments from successful distributors. Yeah, I know, you've got quotes from Yager and Britt, but only by third parties.

3. You are doing a disservice to Amway Corporation by not drawing a clear line between the distributors and the corporation. There are (obviously) greedy and unethical distributors who take advantage of their downlines just as they probably take advantage of their dry cleaners, car dealer, insurance agent, or anybody else that will be taken advantage of. These type of people exist in every walk of life. They are usually short termers who eventually get found out and their empire comes crumbling down. But, don't let these unethical distributors darken the reputation of an otherwise fine company. As far as Amway's claim that they don't make any profits from the sale of books and tapes? For all intents and purposes, this is correct. Amway Corporation offers a hand full of book and tape selections to distributors but most of these types of materials come from the distributor force, book stores, etc. Not from Amway Corporation.

4. As far as the fact that distributors with large organizations make lots of money selling books and tapes.... well, understand that there are hundreds of millions of books and tapes sold in America and throughout the world designed to help people succeed. The Amway distributor force is no different than the sales force of any large corporation in that they need training and motivation to get their jobs done. I recall a close friend taking a position with Federal Express Corp. Upon reporting to his new position, he was handed a book list. The list contained titles like "The Magic of Thinking Big", and "Think and Grow Rich". He was asked to purchase at least 3 books from this list and read them during his first month on the job. He didn't purchase them from Federal Express, but he did purchase them. With Amway distributors, the purchasing of books and tapes is encouraged but optional. And just as any other business would do, the upline uses its purchasing power to obtain these materials at a discounted price and therefore realizes a profit. And why not? If the distributors are going to purchase books and tapes, what's the problem with the upline being the source? I personally have never been coerced into purchasing anything including products, books, tapes, or function tickets. As a matter of fact, the organization to which I belong has gone to great lengths to lower the cost of functions by holding them at local sites and by seeking out providers who can furnish the space at more economical rates.

My final comment is this: I think you have put a lot of effort into this site. It is well documented. But, if you intend to provide the facts, then you must obtain the facts and present them in an unbiased manner. You seem to think there is something wrong with the income that is being derived from the sale of tapes and books. I don't. And I don't understand why you do. I also don't understand why a business with so much wrong with it can be growing at the current rate after 36 years of abuse from people like you. Obviously, you've missed something.

Absolutely, positively HAAAAAAAAD to go to Britt school in Mobile, AL. I would NEVEEEER make it without this great man's influence in my business. What a load of crap! The first thing he did was thump his bible on the podium. I don't have a problem with the bible, but Bill Britt's interpretation left something to be desired. He told all of the women in the room: "If your husband won't get in this bussines, you should dump him and get a new one." Wow, how biblical can one man be? Wish I'd seen something akin to this page back then. Best of luck.

I am a 35 year old medical sales representative and have been hit on by Amway reps about 15 times in the last 10 years. They are always very vague and extremely pushy. I have always felt that they give sales people a bad name by using the cetrain tactics. It took a lot of work and courage on your part to speak the truth. Good for you!!!

Hi!

I just read visited your WEB site about "The Dark Side of Amway". I didn't read the whole thing, but I read enough to decide that you are a complete and total moron, and your site is a total crock of shit.

The obvious misreporting of facts coupled with your total disregard for the pro- side of the story immediately discredits your opinion. If you had listened to "Economic Paradigms" by Paul Zane Pilzner (like I have) you would realize that Amway is not a pyramid scheme. That is an established fact, and is lent credibility by Amway's continuing operation in the United States, especially in light of several investigations.

Amway is not a cult, either. The dress code is enforced for many excellent reasons. The first is to give a good impression to many potential prospects. A room full of unshaven people wearing jeans and ratty t- shirts does not give the impression of a successful, prosperous business.

People sing at the rallies because (of all things) there is entertainment at the rally. People are singing along! Why don't you attack the Boy Scouts of America as a cult? They sing!

You mentioned that the "average" Amway distributor only makes $66 a month. You neglect to mention that this takes in to account not only people who have joined Amway and done nothing, but people who have just joined, and are going to do SOMETHING.

I know why the phrase "Do you plan on being average" aggravates you - you probably won't even achieve that!

Personally I feel that you should be a little more responsible with your "reporting". Amway is short for "The American Way". Free Enterprise. Being able to say "*I* am my own boss!". Freedom. Choices. I am proud to say that I am in Amway.

your a loser!! you had a few no's and could not take it. what gives you the right to blast two of the most succesful amway men of all time. tell me what gives you the right to steal peoples dreams? the system works if you work the system, you did not do something right or you would still be a part of one of the two most powerful companies in the world. if not scared to reply here is my e-mail address: *** going diamond,

Thank you for putting facts about Amway.

I was approached years ago by a coworker and at that time decided that it will not work for me and my wife.

Well wouldn't you know it. My brother is now trying to invite us to his free seminar. The intro tape sounded the same. The pyramid. Your web page reminded us of why we declined in the first place. Thanks.!!!

Boy do I find it amazing that you would have so much extra time to spend doing nothing productive.(so much of it constructing this ridiculous page) I just got into the Amway business with my fiance and for me to read your countless articles on how bad Amway is and "Why I shouldn't get in" is ridiculous. I'll bet you anything that YOU DON'T LIVE THE LIFE I WANT TO LIVE and I would be very very stupid to listen to anything that you print. I believe that Amway gives us the opportunity to live how we want and for our lives to not be dictated by somebody else.

Mr. Schwartz:

Thank you so much for putting up this site. I was just about to join my local Amway group - I had even given my sponsor a list of names to call - when I checked out your web site. Given their reluctance to give out the Amway name, I was very interested in the "bad" press on Amway which led me to search the Web. After reading virtually everything you had (I now owe my boss about a ream of paper; I didn't realize how much there was to print), I knew that I would not make it in the Amway business, and if I tried, I would hate myself and everyone I had gotten involved. I don't think that my local group is one of the worst, but even at its best, the new Amway is pretty scary.

I don't have any SOT or other order forms, because I did not get quite that far in. However, if there is any other information which I could possibly provide, I would be happy to do so. I feel badly for my sponsor because he's a really nice guy, and I think he may be getting in over his head. I'm sure I would not be able to get him out, but if I can help anyone else from getting started by helping in any small way, please let me know. I don't know what your motivation is for maintaining this site - it obviously took a lot of time to organize and pull together the information - but I assume you are trying to help people like me.

Thank you again, from myself, my husband, and my two small children,

Just look at ANY recent article in the newspapers and magazines, or even in AOL or anywhere else about downsizing, rightsizing, or what is now called, according to AT& T "Unassigned". Read Fortune, Forbes, US News and World Report, or Business Week about retirement through the "normal" route. You have to be an ostrich with your head in the sand not to see what is going on. Amway IS a legitimate alternative to the corporate job or any other job for that matter. Just check out what is being launched in June 1996: AlphaStar Digital Satellite System, with The Amway Channel. You'll hear about it, unless yu're an ostrich.

I just want to say THANKS for your Amway page.

My girlfriend has just recently joined Amway, and got her brother to join as well. I have been hesitant to join, but couldn't quite articulate why. I didn't want to "steal her dreams." In fact, I was probably close to joining myself, and I like to consider myself an intelligent individual. Ha! I've been exposed to the Yager organization, the Internet tapes, the method of not mentioning Amway until the last 10 minutes of the presentation. The tapes are interesting, they tell people to succeed you must listen to more tapes and go to the rallys, and the rallys tell you to succeed you must listen to the tapes, which tell you you must go to the rallys… I've printed all your pages, and am going to show them to my girlfreind. I hope it goes well, she has only been in Amway for a couple of months (listening to two or three tapes a day!)

Again, I can't thank you enough. As a programmer, I tend to be disgusted by most of the junk on the Internet, but your page is an example of the Internet can be at it's best; a forum for people to openly share important information with others, without looking for personal gain. In a way, it is what Amway wants to sell itself as, but I don't have to go find six other people to read your page. Though, come to think of it, thats probably not a bad idea! Thanks again, I hope to write you again and tell you I've removed everyone I know from the Amway machine.

Sidney,

I really appreciate your opinion on the subject. Just to let you know I am not involved. I went to a rally that a friend invited me to. I saw a few other guest there as well. One of the guest looked puzzled through the whole rally. He looked around as to see if anyone else was as confused as he was.

The whole rally lasted an hour and a half.

My observations of the rally were that these people where in a hypnotic state. And that they were not going to be like the 98% of negetive thinkers who don't make money. There seem to be plants in the audience who would answer the indirect questions posed by the speaker. Who here has a dream? Who has an emotional dream? Then one in the audience would say … "My dream is to spend more time with my wife and kids". The speaker would then ask, "How many hours do you work a week", the participant would say "Oh, about 52 hours or so". It would go on until the speaker would say something to the effect "This is what I am talking about… This program will help you achive your dream".

Sidney, I am trying to convince my friend that he should not do this.. He doesn't make alot of money. And I can only see him failing at this. He is convinced that I am a negetive thinker who is trying to bring him down to my level. I don't know what to do. Whatever I say to him or show him, he will just say something to the effect. "Ok. Whatever, You'll see".

Anyway,

If you'd like to forward this message to a newsgroup that would be ok. I just would like to let all of these people to stop making others rich when they are not getting anything from it.

If you have any thoughts as to how to help my friend … He has only been involved for 2 months now.

you are absolutely blind to the truth. but it is a free country and diversity of opinion is welcome.

Sid --

I never once had to agree to taking the non-refundable SOT. We order every week, if I want it, I tell upline. I won't argue that I am successful with Amway, as I have not put in the work that my upline has (Yager, Childers, Stewart, Rummel, Maxwell, Collinsworth (all Diamonds), Cook (Emerald), Gregory (Direct), Lambert (Silver Producer) and myself - I spend about 200 PV per year. I am nothing more than a wholesale buyer with a fraction of the dream that it takes to be successful with that business.

I am interested in what you do for a living, which (if any) MLMs you have or are currently working, and WHY you have it in for Amway above all other MLMs.

Thanks for your time.

Sidney,

I'm an Amyway distributor and have been for 1 year. I have been active for about 4 or 5 months. I am very impressed with the amount of research that you have done to put together such an in depth study of the Amway dirt. I'd like to see more dirt pages of other corporations also. Perhaps you would be interested in uncovering the dirt of the hundred or so fortune 500 companies that are in joing venture with Amway Corporation. I think every major corporation has stuff they don't want the shareholders to see. (I mean that seriously, not sarcastically) It would be an interesting project if not one that would require outside help. Well, I'll look over the material and see if I can come up with something to write back to you about. Bye the way, who are you anyway. Good homepage but, still not sure what your personal involvement is with Amway and MLM's in general.

Picture a multi-billion dollar company like Coca-Cola dealing with a company involved in Cults!!!! Its people like you that have nothing better to do than complain and tell everyone else hoe you were a quitter and weren`t man enough to make the networking work. Get off your butt, quit complaining, and start enjoy the life you could have!

P.S. - I love the "tools" in the business so much, I`d buy them even if I wasn't in Amway!

In response to your web page:

Let me start off by saying I disagree with many of the thoughts and ideas presented on your page. While this probably isn't a big deal to you, let me explain why.

I am a "Diamondkid" or, my parents are Diamond Distributors in the Amway business. Many of the people in your webpage claim that only very few people can make money in this business. By firsthand experience, I have found this to be untrue. My parents make well into the 6-figure income bracket. We have a luxurious lifestyle, and it will stay that way forever, barring Amway shutting down, or something. They could stop working the business now, and income will keep coming in. This is one of the great aspects of the business. Not to mention that 3 of my uncles and aunts have attained the level of Direct distributor, and are on their way to emerald. Those are just people related to me. I also happen to know personally at least 10 people who make over a million dollars a year at this business. That *I* personally know. I know of at least 30 more. Not to mention the TON of people who make over $100,000 a year in this business.

However, nothing is guaranteed.

Keep in mind, this is all information coming from my parents' group, who are downline from Dexter Yager.

That's right. Nothing is guaranteed. We do, however, stick to the idea that with hard work, determination and motivation, anything is possible. That's why it's upsetting to see people say that Amway 'doesn't work' simply because it didn't work for them. If you start a computer company that fails, does this mean that the computer industry doesn't work? Of course not. Maybe it was your fault. Maybe it was bad luck. Who knows?! But its' not necessarily the business itself.

And this B.S. about kids being neglected while their parents go "build the business"…I am 16. Sure, it's easy to say I'm biased, but I'm telling you how I feel based on what I've seen. I do not feel neglected. I know that my parents are trying to build a future for me, so our family can have the things that we've always wanted. In fact, my parents have been retired for 8 years. They are now 38 and 40. They are home when I get home from school. Sure, they go out for a couple hours every couple of nights, but so what? I certainly don't mind it when I get a week or month off of school to go to Cancun, or England, or the Bahamas, or other places we've been as a family. On top of that, this business has recently reached third generation. The Victor family and the Dutt family (both Crown Direct Distributors) are 3 generations into this business. If the kids were being neglected, why would they choose to continue this pattern?

I also noticed people complaining about spending too much money on tools and functions. Well, its simple: there are costs to building a business. A rally ticket here in St. Louis is $12 per person. So, for a couple, that's $24. Wow! That's steep, isn't it? Well, maybe it's not so steep when you think about how much you spend on fast food, or cigarettes, or things you don't need during a month. While there, your money goes to waste, you could instead be spending it on a vehicle to help you become financially independent. If you wanted to start a computer repair business, odds are you'd pay for some classes to learn how to repair computers. You'd invest in screwdrivers, spare parts, etc. to aid you in your business.

And to all you morons: Amway is not a pyramid. It's been taken to court; Amway won. End of that.

And about this lawsuit stuff: so what? If I had a penny for every lawsuit that's been brought up to make a quick buck, I'd be rich. I'll bet anyone, anything, that it's defeated in court. I personally know Dexter Yager. He is one of the most humble, God-fearing, giving men I know. No one can say otherwise. And who cares if he makes 2/3 of his income off of his Internet (his company) sales? Who gives a crap? Does this make him worse of a person? No! It simply means that he is making a profit < GASP!> off of a business he started.

I'm sorry for rambling on for so long, but I had to get some things off of my chest. I don't expect you to post this because of sheer length, but I wrote it to inform you. So let me know what you think.

Hello--Just a question for you. When was the last time you bought a book or attended a seminar where the store or publisher, etc. didn't make money on it?? This business enabled my wife to retire to full time momhood but we worked hard for that to happen. The problem with people today is they all want something for nothing. I hope someday you'll lose the chip. Have a great day!!!!!!!!

Thank you for posting this information on your web page. My parents had recently joined Amway and were experiencing serious doubts from the start. After downloading the info. from this page, my parents immediately ended their affiliation with Amway and have no regrets. ( My sister and aunt have also quit Amway and also have no regrets.) According to them, your description of the company and their business practices are totally accurate.

Hi again,

I was lucky enough to get my girlfriend out of Amway, since she was only in for a month, she hadn't been brainwashed enough yet. If it was a 6 months to year, it would have been more difficult. She is actually in the stage of Amway withdrawal right now, coming to her senses as to what she was doing, and actually aware that she was already starting to lie to people, because she wanted to help them out. She listened to one or two tapes a day, and the brainwashing was bgeinning to take effect. It's amazing once you stop listening to the tapes and get unplugged from the system how quickly you can start to see it for what it is.

The Yager system is very clever, it has hooks that reach out to all sorts of people and aspirations, i.e. greed, security, compasssion, religion. So you know, the SA-4400 no longer has the 10 customer rule on it, at least not the copy that we got. But it is still in the reference manual, pages 51 and 52. What I also found in the manual on page 82-83 (I think) is a description of a pyramid scheme, and a warning from Amway that some distributors might do this. It lists three things

1 - Large cash upfront to join, (Yager replaces this with smaller, CONSTANT drain of cash)

2 - Bonus for siging up people under you in the plan, (Yager says you MUST do this to succeed)

3 - Little or no focus on selling the product. (EXACTLY what Yager says) I assume Amway put this in to cover themselves, legally. All the information to see thru Yager is in the Amway reference manual, if you dig thru it. The thing is, they (your Yager upline) tell you not to pay attention to the little details. I wonder why.

I am sending copies of your info to our "upline", my girlfriend wants to hear there answers to all this stuff. The scary part is you don't know if your upline is telling the truth, because they are brainwashed, or if they are in on the scam, and are lying. You are told from day one not to listen to what other people say about the plan, and to counsel with your upline about any questions.

Thanks again, I think your page is performing a valuable service.

Your articles were very interesting. Unfortunately, objectivety was not a high priority on your list. If you present a soley negative viewpoint, you wipe away any hint of credability. Keep up the attempts, we always enjoy a good laugh.

I am a new Amway Distributor, that is just beginning to find out what all this is about… I have had my doubts, but was never able to substantiate anything. I've put in my 8-12 hours a week, made numerous phone calls, mailings, etc. since December 1995 and still have not been able to sponsor anyone. I am a professional with a Bachelor's Degree in Business, I am a Systems Administrator for a Law firm. I was told to do research, because I would be happy with what I found. I never did, assuming what they were telling me were true. I also was told that if I spend 8 to 12 hours a week on "The System" (Yaeger's Internet Svcs) that within 2 to 5 years I would be financially free. This "as told", is based on the FTC's findings in 1979. I have been purchasing my two "Tapes of the Week" for $6.66 each. I have attended the rallies, except for the "Free Enterprise" that is being held this weekend in Greensboro, North Carolina. This, of course, is not making my upline to happy. I found all the information attached to you're "home-page", I downloaded it, printed it, and give it to my sponsor's… They don't believe any of it… can you explain that? They think you are just some negative person that didn't make it in the business and want to blame AMWAY. Sound familiar?? I need proof, if you can provide me more than what you already have I would greatly appreciate it. I am doing this through my office, please send me any comments, or attachments to my personal E-Mail at: *** I plan to take this further, but need more… If you want to see what's happening in AMWAY in Sarasota, FL where I live, look at the Sarasota home page....then go "Sarasota Magazine" January issue… an extensive number of professionals are truly under the "AMWAY" influence… (i.e. http://www.sol.sarasota.fl.us/city) Have you seen the tool they are using to get people in called "DST109" where it tells you that you can't imagine enough money that you can make in this business by selling products???? I wish to hear anything you can help me with, in this matter…

I know, you are thinking "Help who?" The fact is, I myself came very close to getting involved in "the business". I bought the kit, listened to pounds of tapes etc. Then I thought "Why haven't I ever talked to anyone who has done/heard of this before" and went browsing the Web looking for information. I was gullible enough to believe that all that I found would be positive! :)

In any case, I run a small bbs here in Toronto, Canada, and would like permission to reprint your "Amway Price Comparison" and information about cultism in Amway on a sub I have just started within our Canadian network. Since my experiences with Amway (which were thankfully limited) I have had several friends become involved (and one who came over to be shown the plan with his would-be sponsor, but instead was handed a bunch of printouts of your articles and decided to think about it more before jumping in. He has been "saved", so to speak and is still among the living, non-Yager people.

Whether you give permission to reprint or not, thanks for making this information available. I'm sure that after the time you've spent compiling it, it is nice to know that you are being read and appreciated!

Also, should you allow me to reprint, I would be willing to NOT put your address here on it, should you choose. You are probably looking forward to the day when you do NOT hear about Amway!

I was in Amway for six months. Although I can understand how it would work (points & getting others to join) it was not my cup of tea.

First and foremost, my Direct told me flat out that Amway is a cult! He said the dictionary defines a cult as "people wanting the same thing." He continuied by saying that "anytime you get like minded individuals together to work for the same outcome, you have a cult. So Yes you could say that Amway is a cult."

Amway took some of our best friends. Will and Kim (who got us into it) were so much fun to be around. Will liked playing with computers and just basically messing around and Kim was fun to have around. Now, although Will is still fun, he is ALWAYS on the road trying to get someone else to join up. Kim on the other hand has become a total snob living a Rich & famous lifestyle that they do not have, but she has been instructed to pretend they have.

Our Directs in training always screwed with our orders and when we called to check one time they flat out told us that they didn't have time to mess with us.

There are so many stories I just cant keep track of them all. Basically Amway should be renamed Scamway.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem What's you level of success? What books have you read about our business? or is all of your information just from books? The tape and book scandal is so good that even I can become financially savy, have better relationships with my family, friends, understand myself, and help others help themselves. If you only knew, but you're so narrow minded that you can see through a key hole with two eyes.

Sid,

I haven't been able to get at the original "Amway - the Untold Truths" web page in quite some time.

Could you please send me the latest URL for it so that I'll see your posting when you do it?

Thanks,

p.s. I started dating someone who 2 years ago tried to recruit me into Amway. Amway was a subject I just avoided discussing with her. Out of the blue this morning, I just happened to notice some "Satinique" hairspray in her bathroom and mentioned I had never heard of that.

She said "Oh yeah, that's an Amway brand. It should be called 'Satanic' because I learned that Amway is full of evil despicable people." She went on to tell me all the familiar stories.

We have been a distributorship since June 12, 1995. Recently, we have gotten on line and found information on Amway. From what I have read, I can see first hand at to what the literature is stating. For the past several months I have had a "gut feeling" if I was doing the "right thing" in getting people involved. Doubt is a very, very powerful emotion. Thus, it keep me searching for answers to my doubts, thus, I came across your web page in Yahoo. What my wife and I have read in the various documents we have had similar if not the same dealings with our upline. I feel somewhat dissapointed but, nevertheless, educated. If you have any information as to the rights of purchased motivational material, what I'm trying to say is that, can I return this material for a refund or am I stuck. Seems I can't get an answer.

I'd like to leave you with a philosophy that my wife and I use.

"When I do good,
I feel good;
when I do bad,
I feel bad;
and that is
my religion."

- Abraham Lincoln

Yeah, we are distributors, but not "cultists". We simply like to buy from ourselves. Most of the motivational things I, personally, learned growing up. Self-motivation need not be learned through tools. However, find a goal big enough to be supported through Amway distribution is another story. To me, it's all an uncertified, unaccredited college course on marketing and goal setting. It can be learned ANYWHERE and by ANYONE for ANY walk of life. People should not knock distributors any more than the punks who solicit over the phone or go to work everyday. Everyone has their puppetmaster. Even the rich folks. Even if the puppet master is GOD. To me, people who knock Amway are:

1. quitters - they tried and it did not work

2. ignorant - they live by words of parents and friends who quit

3. in tune with them selves - it may just not be their path.

However, people like you and the others who are bored enough to write these negative papers need to get a life. Smile and enjoy your life outside of this negative path to criicize others lives. You only live once, so soak it up!

Hang in there though. Life ain't always this boring!

I would like to thank you for setting up this sight. No, it did not deter me from getting into Amway, it did, however, allow me to see the business from a different perspective. Being aware of certain underhanded practices employed by several independent distributors has allowed me to avoid those pitfalls encountered by others that you have so nicely exploited. Thanks Again!!

All I had to do was read a few of the articles you have. One in particular was "Tool Scam". It's little wonder why America is in the pathetic shape it's in now. Wimps like you, and thousands of others, rather than just saying, "I can't hack the pace", have opted to corrupt and weaken others who might otherwise change their lives for the better forever. Ya know what? I'm also (in addition to being a member of Amway) a member of the Unification Church!! Oh, my God!! What WILL we do now? I'm 41, married, with a brilliant computer- literate, reading, writing, spelling, chess-playing 4-year-old boy; ex-military, working at the biggest manufacturer of gas turbine engines in the world, and NO SLOUCH, man! I've got it together, and I'm goin' places, pal. I've found in Amway some of the most incredibly motivated, positive, uplifting, morally-upright people I've ever encountered. Lives are changing, man…and YOU wimped out. I've seen exactly the same thing in Amway as in the Unification Church. People don't really want to change and grow, and simp out. That's right, I said simp out. Then, to justify their own weakness and spinelessness, they call it a "cult". How easy and trite. Why is there that consistency in organizations that understand what it takes to REALLY move on? You're challenge, my friend, is to post this letter. And you can put MY name on this sucker--dig? Yeah, John Kenny from San Diego.

Grow up…be tough…be all you can be.

are you really sure this thing sucks as bad as you say and how did you get so bitter did you lose money by just investing $ without time or a reason to succeed

your page looks like you have done alot of research on Amway.

i was signed on as an amway distributor by a co-worker. i though it was harmless at the time.

it's just a soap company, right.

i researched amway myself and they look like a legit-- company.

they own the Orlando Magic and their products worked good. they sell national brands in their catalog. they even sell MCI phone service.

it is not the company i question but the distributor organizations around the country. i thought that if amway was such a great deal why not go tell everyone. but my upline told me not to. he said that it would scare people away. that confused me cause if something is so good why not be proud of it. i guess this is why amway gets such a bad rap.

please e-mail me as to why this is so. i can't get a straight answer from anyone in my group.

i don't really do it anymore cause of the negative feedback.

SOT forms----

Okay I will look them up and send them to the plaintiffs.

I talked to another Amway guy the other day. He is with Internation Connections. Ever hear of it? Is Amway --Amway under (any) flag?

The idea still "sounds" like it would work. You just have no idea on how they wanted to control "my" business? They "preach" that it was MY business. Yet.... My husband had to be THE major part of it. I was the one wanting to sign on and do the business. He has his own business. He had to show the plan and be the one who did the bookwork. He didn't want to. He had to be OVER me. Which don't get to me as bad as it would to some women. I live very traditional to begin with. I was to wear a nice dress -- I am a stay-at- home mom with 6. I only own 3 dresses. I was to wear RED lipstick. Which I didn't mind -- except I don't wear lipstick much -- and certianly not red. I was to call in my order between 7 and 8 PM on Sunday night. I have a VERY busy family life. I am not alway home at that time. I was to pick up the order between 5 and 6 PM on Thursday. I was in school on that night. I got yelled at because it WAS to be done. We were basicly told we had to buy the tapes - books and go to all the meeting -- have meetings and ect. Even if we didn't pay any of our bills -- including our electric bill. Well we are rural -- all electric. If we don't pay the bill, we don't have water- sewer - heat or anything. We do have the little one to things about. Well - it HAD to be done to the "system's requirements". Otherwise it would NOT work. We were told that once we find out who would join us -- we were no longer to have fun times with those outside of the organization "family." We were to take family vacations -- only to promote the business. I like to go camping and not talk business at all. My husband was to wear a blue suit with a red tie. I see us now going to the Men's STore "Could I buy an Amway suit please?" Why not label it as such and avoid the question if it is correct? Oh and use that unGodly breath freshner. I really don't know who devised this "plan" - but it sounds a little to demanding. I lived under my dad's rule for 18 years and then under a husband's rule for another 13 years -- I am now married for another 10 years with a very traditional marriage. But I just don't take kindly to strangers telling me what make-up, clothes, jewlery to wear -- what foods to eat -- (what tampons to use) what friends to socialize with and when and where to go. This sentence really could go on forever. So after getting in trouble for not picking up my tapes on time again, I said I don't want anymore and I quit. They have no leverage over my life if I am not a part of theirs.

I guess at this rate -- if I have the choice of being a clone and rich(maybe) or poor and my own individual --- guess what I would pick? I like ME. My husband has no intintion of following in anyone's footsteps or under anyone's thumb -- he is already self employed for a reason -- he likes it.

Like you really wanted to know....

Thanks for the shoulder.

Sidney: I just wanted to tell you, after reviewing your research I have decided I will be resigning as an Amway Distributor. So many of the things you mentioned, I experienced and saw for myself.... However, I could never quite confirm my feelings… Now that I know all this, there is no way I could stay in and maintain my self respect. I am an intelligent educated human being, that would not "dupe" another person intentionally… Therefore, my upline will be notified this week that I resign as an Amway "Scamway" Distributor. I have come to the conclusion that Amway is like kitty litter, on the surface it looks good and smells good, but when you dig beneath the surface, it starts to smell pretty bad. Thanks for providing the truth, I now have my life back and inner peace.

Sir,

thanks to you I did not make a mistake. I almost got involved in this scam of cult. if you use my lines please do not use my name.

You have a pretty in-depth web site on MLM's, especially Amway. Why do bash MLM's and other such organizations, especially Amway. Yes, I am an Amway distributor, not very active at this time, but nonethe less a distributor. I do attend rallies and functions occassionally but most of all I like the open meetings. There is alot of hype in some of the meetings and could probably be toned down a great deal. If all this was doen you would end up in a somewhat boring meeting, much like many church surmons. I give anyone, who tries there best to build an Amway distributorship, the upmost respect and admiration. I have been participating for quite sometime now and keep running into Stupid, well unknowledged, people. If you took a survey on any given day of the week you would find that 90% of all people want something for nothing. At least in the Amway world you do have to earn your progress. In the real world ,today and for many years in the past and for many years to come, especially in the corporate world, if you want to get somewhere in a career it's not what you know, but it's waht kind of paper do you have, where did this paper come from and what kind of scores did you have. Well, I have to go home now. Give me some of your thoughts.....

Dear Sidney,

Hello.

I wrote you awhile back and quite appreciated your timely response. I also appreciated your answering my questions about your involvement and the non-confrontational nature of your letter. Thank you for maintaining a site where so many varied opinions can be aired.

The purpose of this correspondence is to hopefully help others who are considering the Amway opportunity, or those currently involved doing research on the subject, make decisions based on more than one source of information.

I will freely admit that every situation is different and that my experience is my experience, not someone elses. Within the world of Amway there are various organizations, so this letter does not claim that it reflects all the different groups a potential distributor might encounter. Each upline is different from the next because everyone involved comes from a different background and are at different places in their life. Some people involved are mature. Some are not. Some have people skills. Others don't. Some are responsible. Some are not. Noone in Amway experiences the exact same thing as anyone else in the business because the diversity of people precludes that from happening. I also don't believe that the people involved intentionally hurt anyone or teach potentially dangerous things with malicious intent. Each person, once again, is teaching from where they are in life based on what they believe and what they have experienced. The people I encountered while involved, by and large, were ambitious, caring people. Some had balance in their life. Most, in my opinion, did not. This matter, combined with the research I did on mind control and mental coersion, has led me to believe that for most people this opportunity takes more than it gives.

My experience with the Amway opportunity has been bittersweet. Amway Corporation, as a company, has always provided me with superior service. They back all of their products with a 100% warranty and never failed to please. Whether their products are the best on the market or not, is subject to opinion. Whether their products are overpriced or not, is subject to opinion. Value is in the eye of the beholder.

Concerning the training organization I was associated with (World Wide Dream Builders) most of the people I met were ambitious, bright people, not afraid to go against the grain and pursue a better life for their family. Do I think they were informed? Yes. In some ways, more than most. However in other ways they were absolutely closed minded to input, whether that be from family, friends, associates, the news, the net, etc..They completely disregard Napoleon Hill's admonition to "keep an open mind on all subjects at all times." Herein lies the danger. While one DOES neeed to protect his/her brain from input that may create doubt and possibly hinder the achievement of a goal, isolating oneself from opposing information, the anchors of family and friends and/or other forms of input can be very dangerous. Without knowing it, people stop listening to others who MIGHT have something helpful to say, or input to offer, and instead seek the majority, if not all, of their information upline. As the person becomes more and more alienated from all previous anchors, often encouraged in their decision by the praise that temporary "success" brings in the business, disoriented by the abundance of meetings, lack of sleep, countless "miles after midnight." all fueled by the winners belief in himself and in his dream, many people's thinking becomes impaired. Some make irrational decisions based of inmformation they heard on tapes, or based on the half acurate information of a "leader" who, six months ago worked digging ditches (a noble profession) but who is now counseling others on subjects such as Marriage, Finances, Business Skills, etc.. Still, a person CAN to seek information farther upline. This process, however, can be impaired by the personality and approachability of said upline, not to mention the maturity and/or knowledge level of that person who, hopefully, didn't crawl out of the ditch nine months ago. It was often said, at least by my upline, that it was the downline's responsibility to build a friendship upline. To all uplines who may be reading this---that may be true.....but it's YOUR responsibility to be approachable. Enough said.

Some of you may wonder what credibility I have, if any. Let it be known that joined the organization in 1990 and left in 1995. I achieved the level of 4000, had 35 ST/O running through my business, and at my widest point, had 7 legs. I helped create a 2500 pin down one leg, (backed by a thousand pin) and also helped create two other one-thousand pins down two other legs. My research, which you should do on your own as mine may be wrong, is that approximately 2% of all the people who ever get involved in this business go Direct. (7500 PV). While I don't know what percentage of people ever go 4000 PV, I know that most never go 1000, and so with that I will let you form your own conclusions.

As I spent time in the business, I heard information about key issues change often. One report that changed concerned World Wide being a non-profit organization. I never heard that from Mr. Puryear, only from misinformed members of my upline who eventually, years later, corrected that. This is important as also I learned (somewhere between achieving the pin level of 2500 and the level of 4000) that at the Direct level I would pay less to my upline for the tapes than I previously had, effectively creating a profit. As to the exact amount of said discount I can not say. I can't say with certainty as to where the proceeds from the sale of each audio cassette goes. I do know that the ST/O (Standing Order) tapes cost me $5.50 and $6.00 at different times in the business and that, based on research I did for a recording project at my job, the approximate cost to produce such a tape is somewhere near $.80 - $1.00. Allowing for the $1.00 figure, that leaves approximately $5.00 to be distributed amognst World Wide and the upline. Do I believe the tapes are worth the investment? Some are yes. One has to decide what they want from life and whether expenditures for items such as tapes, functions, etc.. is moving them closer to or farther away from their goal. I do believe that people always need to be learning new information. Society today demands it if one is to stay competitive. Here again I begin to tread on sacred ground....as no one "made" me go to functions or "made" me spend money that would best be spent elsewhere. I feel that most of this occured in much the same way that noone physically "makes" a prisoner of war sign an espionage confession....however there is much to be said for mental cooersion and persuasion.( I recommend that anyone interested do some serious research on this subject. ) None of the functions or activities were "mandatory," yet I was taught over and over (in something called CORE) that I needed to attend every function. Many people sat right next to me and heard the same thing, over and over....and, since we trusted these "leaders" and since they told us (more than once) that "noone ever got out of Amway and succeeded big at something else," many of us drove countless miles, wasted incredible amounts of time and money, chasing the ridiculously slim chance of going Diamond. Although it may sound like I am down on the Amway business, I am not. I understand that the business can and does work. While I never went direct, I did achieve more than 90 % of those who have ever been involved. You might be part of the two percent that go Direct. I hope so. Even if you aren't, you will probably benefit from learning about direct marketing in the 90's, Free Enterprise, and if you stay in long enough, will probably improve your people skills.For me it boiled down to opportunity cost----and I had to ask myself what else I could have learned or done had I spent all that time, money and effort elsewhere. For me personally, the cost became too great. I did gain some valuable friends and learned a lot about people. Now I am ready to earn some money. (Isn't that what a business is supposed to do?) As I believe Harvey Mackay says, "The market place offers one reward: money. If you aren't making any, get out." I concur.

PS: If you have been in the business and have been "beat-up" emotionally, mentally or financially, take heart. You were a miracle before you got into the business, you were a miracle while you were in the business, and you are a miracle right now. You are OK without Amway! Go and succeed! You are a winner!

PSPS: Many of you may currently be been involved in the World Wide Dreambuilder Organization. You should have signed an agreement with WWDB when you first joined. Right now you may have hundreds or thousands of dollars of new tapes still in their wrappers. Did you know you can turn these tapes back in. IT'S PART OF THE AGREEMENT. (Some tapes, like Daughery tapes, may not qualify.) For your own benefit, check it out.

My sponsor and I want to thank you for reaffirming our belief that we are one the two percent in the nation that will be financially successful in 2-5 years. Mr. Schwartz, I am curious with all of the information that you have beeen putting out on the internet and all of the massive information you are getting , dig up all of this information, dig up all of these "quotes", What do you do for a living? Wouldn't something more positive than criticising someone else for choosing a lifestyle that offers them hope be better? To hell with this! Posture out the window! It seems to me Mr. Schwartz that you had some sort of miserable childhhod. Did your parents abuse you? You must be an abuse victim of some kind. That kind of negative does not come from a happy childhood. Is your marriage on the rocks? If I spent as much time as you did on on the computer spewing your bitterness mine would be. There's really no point in defending Amway because there will always be little people with little minds with little to do in their life except criticize big people with big dreams, and big checks.

Sincerely with no appologies,

DIAMOND BOUND DISTRIBUTORS!!!!

We would like to offer you this opportunity but we only have time to

offer this to seriously ambitioua people. Not bitter!

Amway is a Cult!? I'll have to let my downline know. Maybe NOW they will listen to me and do as I say!

I just read your ENTIRE page (if you can imagine someone sitting around for a couple of hours just to do that) and I would like to give you my two cents worth. First of all, let me tell you that I too was an Amway distributor. I guess technically I still am, but I no longer attend rallies or weekly functions, or even purchase the tape 'o' the week. I would like to pass along my experience to you or anyone else who is willing to read on.

Ever since I was young I somehow knew that I would eventually go into business for myself. Through high school I owned a mobile DJ service which I took to college and now I am a partner in a web page design company. I, like many other entrepreneurs, am always looking for other ways of making money. This is what Amway distributors look for in contacts. However, this is where 'The System' failed to keep me as an active member. Everyone in my upline had said to me that the only way I was ever going to succeed in this world was to be in Amway…Okay, I was. Now what? They continued to say at every function and meeting that the only way to succeed in America was to go into business for yourself and not work for someone else…I already kew this so I went along with it. Finally, the big thing that got to me was the statement "the only business worthwile to be in is Amway"…Yeah right! I told my upline that I enjoyed doing other things (job related) and didn't feel that recruiting people was really my thing. She told me that if I 'worked the business' for 2-5 years I would be free from any and all work. The only thing I would have to do is find something to spend my money on. This is where I noticed a BIG problem in continuity between what was being said and what was being done. For example, my upline Emerald will be going diamond this year and I asked him for some help in building my business (I didn't feel that my upline was helping me out as much as I needed). He told me that he didn't have time to help me out because he was doing so many other things with the business…One question. What are you spending your time on if you are free from any and all work at that level?

Now I am on my own again and away from 'the System'. I am doing better away from Amway and if anyone would like to reply to me, please e-mail me ***. Thanks for reading…

Enjoyed your article on the Amway scam. You are right on the money with your comments. I read the responses carefully to your articles and determined that many of the responses were probably not written by people who truly believe in Amway but rather people who want to perpetuate the scam for their own benifit. They are the true fools. Just some more people who want to get something for nothing. I put them right up there with welfare recipients who believe the world owes them something. Keep up the good work. Signed, "A thinking person"

I am married to a distributor who goes into "deny mode" when all of the information was presented to her by our FORMER downline concerning the Very serious allegations presented in your web page. Our direct distributor preferred to ignore the information presented to him and proceeded to criticize my former downline for not having a big enough dream.

Is there an easy way to present the real facts about very sophisticated mind control that Dexter has perfected? Help. There"s a seminar & rally in our town that I hope that she will avoid it. Help

Sidney,

I have recently discovered that, according to the Amway Business Compendium, distributors can ask for a refund of tools puchased from their upline for a period of 180 days after sale. They can get a refund of function and seminar $ for 30 days after the event. Also, distributors selling tools are required to advise their downline purchasing tools of this and to establish policies for refunds. Upline are also required to make sure that the amount of $ spent on tools and other "system" related events is in reasonable proportion to the profit made for each of those distributors. I realize it is a small thing in relation to the damage done, but I think it affords an opportunity to recover some of the money. It also provides a possible avenue for future law suits, etc. for those who were not informed of the rules as is required. I hope you can highlight this somewhere so that people will be able to exercise this option and recover some $. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about this as I have the info and have successfully exercised this option recently.

Sidney

I keep reading the same thing: Amway isn't for everybody, but everybody can make it, if they work hard, follow the system, and have faith in their upline. Quite simply, it is a crock. A system like Amway would crumble if everyone "made it". When it all boils down, Amway's success _depends_ on failure and drop-outs, maintaining the unspoken motto "the downline is expendable". If the upline pushes a new recruit to put him/herself into financial risk to "stick to the system", to the extent that the recruit can afford no more, they can simply recruit another. In essence, if the downline succeeds, GREAT! If they don't, it's no real problem, just recruit some more (the more recruited, the greater the probability that someone will excel). I think we can see who the victims are in this scenario.

As for the distributors who sing the praises of Amway (in this forum or anywhere else), consider this: Are you really coming out on top when all the hype settles? If you are making a considerable profit, keep in mind that there are a great many people, many who have worked much harder than yourselves, who have failed miserably with Amway. If you consider your Amway venture a success, count your blessings. You were lucky.

Well to bring you up to date, I resigned as of last Monday. I notified our Pearl Distributor that I was leaving. … I told them "I could not consciously recruit anyone and maintain my self respect, now that I know what I know"..... I told them that I went to church on Sunday and our pastor gave a sermon on how God provides for the birds and other animals of the world, surely wouldn't he provide for us. That made me realize that I should appreciate the many blessings I already have and not think of only a lofty dream of "diamonds and riches"… The Pearl Distributor said she understands, and appreciated that I had the integrity to telephone her and tell her that I was leaving, she said most just leave and never come back… She also said that I should leave my distributorship active, because good things are changing in Amway and that I might decide to come back… (I kind of laughed to myself, thinking NO WAY) Then, I telephone my sponsor, they were not happy at ALL.... She said there was no doubt in her mind she was going to make it in this business… I said I hope you do… She said there is no HOPE about WE WILL MAKE IT!!!!! I hung up and about an hour later, her sponsor called me (Direct Distributor).... NOT HAPPY AT ALL> > > > > > Said that I all that stuff I read on the Internet is old and that it's not true anymore and that AMWAY is a wonderful reputable company. I told her that I didn't expect her to see what I see, but that I was an intelligent, educated person and that I have the ability to see things objectively. {This did not go over to well} She laughed at me.... Oh well,,,, I feel better, the stress is out of my life, I am enjoying my family, and I have more money. Thanks for all the input.... you probably saved my life.....

hello,

I am interested in a division of Amway that are calling themselves Worldwide Dream Builders. I have been to every research library and searched all over the net and cannot find anything. I have a friend who has gotten involved and isn't asking the appropriate questions. The info in your pages is wonderful. It is the first I have seen of any use. I was unable to find anything definitive out there. The 'business' as they call operates very much like the ones described in your pages- the diamond system, ruby, etc. Everything is hush-hush. Avoid those people who tell you you may be making hasty decisions, etc. It is very much like a cult as far as I can see. Anyway, if you have any info I would be very grateful for a response. Thank you very much!!

Thanks for posting all this stuff. I've just spent the evening browsing through it with my 2nd former sponsor.

My wife and I have been active twice. We got in under the Britt organization; we were impressed by the "system", and thought it could work. We remained convinced for about a year, as the "support" disappeared. Our first sponsers dropped out.

We encountered a Yeager/Storm leg, and once again got involved (we went through the hassle of getting released from our old leg, so we didn't have to wait 6 months.) We just dropped out again, this past January. This time, our reasons were different:

) Tool expenses. My sponsor bought a whiteboard from Amway (PV is PV, right?) His sponsor told him, "You could have bought that through Internet, too." A light went off in my head: why would the upline direct encourage a distributor to spend money on tools (no PV) rather than on products (PV)? I don't know how pervasive the "tools" profits are, or how far down each leg they go, but I started wondering about the tapes, etc. As fellow fat-guy Rush Limbaugh says, "follow the money…"

) Time. Let's see… you want one night a week. Let's call it 4 hours. You also want one weekend a month - let's call that 8 hours. I won't even touch on my travel/meals/babysitter expenses; let's just break it down to cash on hand: As a freelance Web site designer and CGI developer, I bill my "spare" time at $50/hr. So, while I was working on Amway, I _could_ have made an extra $600 (pre-tax; why is _THAT_ never mentioned?) To be totally unfair, I'll even list the requirements/expenses for my $50/hr job:

Computer : cost $0. To quote the guys in the French castle, "we allready got one."

Internet connection: cost $36/month. (OK, I know I could do better, but they're reliable and let me test my CGIs on their server.

So, I spent $36 to make $600, for a profit of $464 (Pre-Tax). But beyond that, I didn't:

) Leave my house

) Hire a sitter

) Piss any relatives or friends off (OK, so maybe my wife IS a little miffed that I'm still typing at 12:00am while she tries to sleep.)

) Lie, either overtly or indirectly

The biggest difference is this: I feel _GOOD_ about what I did, whereas those open meetings and plans allways left me with the moral equipment of cotton-mouth (for those in Rio Linda, that's what you get when you stay up all night drinking Old Grand Dad.)

Now, despite this, I _still_ believe that the Amway _concept_ as laid out in official company documents is sound. And, when my Web business is established and triving, I intend to become "active" again; except that I'm staying out of the "system". (Maybe I'll try a different system. There's one that's been around for about 2000 years that looks pretty good.) Thanks for "listening." I feel much better.

Dear Mr. Schwartz:

This is in regards to Your Comments on AMWAY. People are missing the big picture. Let's face it, there are faults to be found in anything if you investigate it deep enough. With so many people telling basically the same story, you have to STOP! AND OPEN UP YOUR MIND. Just like my upline direct stated when he was doing the plan in front of 30 people, "try and keep and open mind." HAY PEOPLE, keep an open mind and let's see if you want to belong to this organization. I know, I know, there are all kinds of people with different peronalities out there, and I would have to say "SW, SW, SW" or put in plain terms--Some Will weigh out the information that Mr. Schwartz is making public, Some Won't they are a percentage of the one's who just do not know what they are getting involved with, and conform to the system's way of thinking, and So What, they are the people that just dont' care what Amway or the system has to offer. I have come to believe they are the SMART ONES, they had nothing to lose and allto gain. Mr. Schwartz, I am a distributor and I got in with the idea of helping people, not hurtng or even loosing friends in the process of duplicating the system like it was a religion. For instance, my upline direct stated to me when I first entered into this business as a distributor, I cant' see how anyone could build this business without going to all the functions (we were to told to sell our t.v. at one point to get the money to go these functions), buying tools to prospect people, LISTENING TO A TAPE A DAY, getting on Amvox "big time", and the book of the month club. That's like saying "You can't pray to god if you're not in his house." IT WON'T WORK!!!! My dissagreement is how many tapes do I have to listen to, that which is basically the same. Get it? The same song only sang by different people. If people would take the time to read all the documents that are in "AMWAY: THE UNTOLD STORY", their previous slant on the subject matter would surely change. How about a little cause and effect--I remember my upline Emerald saying that Amway is now on the web. HA! What Amway and the Yeager System failed to understand is that they have been exposed to the world. Good or Bad? Well what I have seen alot of lately is BAD! So I ask where is the security that the system says it will give an indiviaul or family when they go profit sharing direct or above? What if the system starts to fail in big numbers? Who is controlling Amway? The System IS!! And from all accounts on your pages it is out of control. Where is all that wonderful security? Throughout, this adventure into Amway Land I was sincere, honest, all the traits that are not conducive with the Amwayonians. I had that gut wrenching feeling along, maybe, just maybe you might be fooling yourself. My only advice from an honest to goodness human being is to thoroughly check it out. My advice to Amway is regroup and reform. Get the score? Us, people are the foundation.

Sidney , Thanks for putting this page together. As an Amway Profit Sharing Direct Distributor we had started to have some reservations about a month ago about many things that were going on. I have had my business for 3.5 years and was completely sold out to the yager system. 5 weeks ago I cought my Emerald Direct telling one of my didtributors a lie and what was really very dangerous counsel. That started the crack into our belief and I started doing more rresearch.

There are some "whiners" who have responded back to your info- However the actual research you have provided is accurate. We were in fact making money and I had a good group both locally and out of town. There system will work if worked hard enough.

It is, however, based on fraud and therefore will ultimately come crashing down. It is regrettabele as there are many good people in the organization.

My best friends were in my business. We have stopped the business as of the twelth and are concentrating our efforts on reeducating our people. It is difficult. The cult awareness information has been especially useful.

Thanks again

Sidney,

WOW! What an impossibility thinker you are!! How nice of you to attempt to save us--doctors, lawyers, engineers (like myself, hence the bad spelling), pilots, cabinet makers, homemakers, etc.!!! Obviously, we aren't smart enough to figure out this business on our own. Sidney, have you ever tried to build a business? Were there expenses involved? Was it time consuming? Did your commitment level affect the outcome? As commited distributors, we understand this business, Sidney. The tapes, books and functions are NOT unique to Amway! WALMART, McDonalds, IBM, Hewlett Packard, etc. are all corporations that understand-- positive mental ATTITUDE builds business. No one forces anything on me, Sidney. I choose to follow the patterns of SUCCESSFULL people. Whose footsteps are you following? Read a book, Sidney. Swallow your sour grapes and get on with your life. People in this business will figure out for themselves if this for them or not. It's that simple.

If your reading this and you're in the business, hold your head up high. This business is the greatest opportunity out there for building financial freedom, helping others do the same and for building a positive outlook on life that will help you everyday. Many, if not all, sucessfull people in all walks of life teach the same principals Amway teaches it's distributors.

AIN'T IT GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am glad you made this web page before I joined Amyway. I went to one of those meetings and found things cout like. I ask the person that showed me the plan about it. He told me it was a happy group meeting, that likes getting inoved. I'm sorry other's didn't have the chance to get this informachine.

Thank you for your time in writing this warning.

Hi Sidney

You have a great site about Amway. I was involved with Amway as a distributor about a year ago for about 6 months before deciding to quit.

I wish I'd had access to the sort of information that you have on your Web page before signing up.

I'm from New Zealand, and I know several people who were in the business. I'm interested in creating a short flyer to put on people's car windscreens during their monthly open meetings to warn them about joining Amway (or tell them some facts if they have already joined) and I'd like to use some of the information that you have on your Web page. What do you think of this idea. I'm sure that my old upline will be really pissed off, but who cares?

Why don`t you use your time and effort to make some thing productive instead wast your live fighting against facts.

Why don't you go Diamond and give your family financial freedom.

You can too!!

Go Diamond!!!!!

We believe in you. Y not You?

Hello, One of my relatives is in AMWAY. (uncle) He is trying to get my parents into AMWAY. Well, we think it's stupid, a joke, and a pyramid. Well, we looked up AMWAY on the NEt and found your page. We LOVED it!!!!! Now,my uncle (AMWAY DUDE) is coming over tonight. We are going to show him your page and say "No way, we are not getting into AMWAY!" Thanks for your page!!!

I really enjoyed your site and the associated links. It seems that at least once a month these days I am approached by "new friends" to want to talk to me about a wonderful business opportunity. The classic was a "friend" of my wife's.

This guy got into our house under the guise of wanting to talk to my wife about time and financial management (topics that my wife is interested in as she is a high school teacher). Anyway, this guy and his wife arrive do their spiel and then finally admit that they were into Amway.

The funny part was that they arrived 45 minutes late because they didn't have enough money for the bridge toll.

High credibility role models.

I have even considered nailing a sign to my front fence declaring that this is an "Amway Free Zone". Maybe I should sell such signs and write a book titled" How to make lots of money by exploiting the people who have been exploited by Multi-Level Marketing"

Keep up the good work. I'll visit this site frequently to see if there are any updates. Have you considered an Amway Humour section full of Amway jokes and snappy rejoiners?

eg.

Q Can I meet with you to talk about a wonderful business opportunity?

A Sure thing. Come over to our place tomorrow night. We're having a clan meeting. Lots of nice folks. Have you got a spare white sheet?

Been there, done that. i found you analysis to be right on, although I was encouraged by the fact that Rich and Jay have recognized the problem. My personal observation is that from the emotion shown in many of the responses, that the "cult" lable hits home with alot of people. The arguments presented by the uplines of the more charismatic (I was in the Yeager downline) leaders dismissing the lable are "emotionally logical" but "realistcally challenged. I am still a dreamer and still believe that network marketing is a viable vehicle, I consider my relationship with Amway a very expensive lesson.

Just a little side note, my Direct distributor was a Direct because two Emeralds built his business, but neglected to teach him the "duplicaticity" of their efforts, for whatever that's worth. They're happy, he's happy and I'm poorer but more aware of "The promise of opportunity and support.

By the wat, Amway offers an unconditional guarentee on their products, but I can't help to notice that if you buy into the tapes and ect.... tough luck.

It is ironic that a multi-billion dollar corporation that claims to lead you down the American Way (which is presumably what Amway stands for) actually defrauds the American public and leads it down the garden path instead. What you personally are doing by exposing these shysters, I think, represents the real American Way ! Go Schwartz !

Thank you for your informative and complete Web page. You truly are providing people a valuable service. I would like to relay to you our personal experience with Amway, although I'm sure you have heard this countless times.

My wife and I recently moved to the Washington, D.C. area (Northern, Va.) and have made several friends, but have not had the opportunity to meet many people as of yet. On a recent visit to the local Mall, we were browsing in a store when another couple struck up a friendly conversation with us. It turns out they had lived in the area that we had just moved from, so we spent several minutes having a pleasant conversation about things there and here.

We went our separate ways, but not after exchanging business cards. - They said they were involved in some sort of "product distribution." We thought nothing of it, and actually were happy that we may have made a couple of new friends.

We thought nothing of it until a couple of weeks later, the man called and said that "their business was interested in expanding" and that they would like to meet to tell us about it. We reluctantly agreed, and went back to the mall to meet the couple several days later.

When we got there, we ate lunch and discussed things for about ten minutes, and then the sell started.

They first started by very vaugely getting us to describe the material things that we wanted, like property, free time, etc. They then went through the entire "System" process, including drawing the circles, etc. It wasn't until at the END of the presentation, they finally mentioned AMWAY. We were already skeptical, but as soon as we heard those words, we were ready to leave.

They said that they were looking for "special" peopleand that we needed to do something within the next few days in order to get moving. We told them that we wanted to do more research and we would call them if we were interested. They wanted to give us material and have us attend one of their "meetings," but we politely refused and left. As soon as I had left, I was angry, feeling like they had wasted 1 1/2 hours of my weekend to pitch this pyramid scheme. Aftr reading some of the responses here, I feel as though that would have continued throughout our involvement.

I'm glad that we did not get involved and feel that we made the right decision. We are very independent people and would not have fit in well with the cheery "just be like everyone else," materialstic attitude.

Thanks again and keep up the good work.

Just got shown the plan for the third time. It always someone who is a friend or family that haven't made it yet but they know the plan work, 4, 5, 6… years working actively and they are hoping to be pearl, or ruby, soon, "were almost there, not quite, but we sure have a good upline, lots off heros there!" It always sounds so good so wonderfull, "a people business, not a product business", they only talk about the dessert -- tape after tape after tape. I have a stack of 8-9 here in front of me to listen to before he needs them back tomarrow, time, time, time. There is sure alot of duplication here! If its not for me i'm the loser, everyone doesn't get rich do they, and if you don't then thats just because you didn't have a good enough, WHY?, right.

Wish I would have found this last night before we paid our first $14 to go to a afternoon'er. I did a search as he was leaving and look what I found… Thanks I needed that!

I was recently visited by an amway representative. And he was telling me about how most products were cheaper, and that if I did a good job and worked hard that I had a good chance to become like so many, in that I would become independantly well off, and would be able to retire at an early age. I didn't believe a word he said, but I didn't want to be rude. But from what your price comparison showed, it looks like Amway is actually more expensive for a lot of their products. It looks like some of their products are slightly cheaper than the brands I normally select (I try to get the best available with certain products), but there isn't really a significant difference. I most likely would not have joined the Amway "family" anyway, but from what I saw in your page, I'm definitely not going to. I can't see how it would benifite me in any way. Especially since I'm 1/2 way through college, and expect have an earning of $25,000/year within the next year. And $40,000/year within 1 to 2 years following. And for only myself, that is a substantial amount, considering I've been living quite well with just $9,000/year. I already have my own house, car, stereo, computer, tv, DSS, and it's all paid for. And I'm soon to have a Motorcycle too, as soon as I can find one in good enough condition to buy. I think I'm doing well enough on my own, and Amway will only bring me down, and slow my progress to acheiving my goals.

Thanks for the info you gave on your page,

Bravo!!

I am ashamed to say I have been involved not once, but twice with Amway. Each time I was approached at a vulnerable time in my life and the "false friendship" offered me was the lure that got me.

It almost devastated me financially the first time, and likewise for the second time…it amazes me that I fell for it again. Thinking different "upline" would make it work for me.

Always being made to feel that you just weren't good enough. Your dream was not big enough. I am embarassed and ashamed.

Thank you for confirming what I have known in my heart - coersiveness and deceit are not only practiced, but promoted.

Never-again-Amway !!

I have found it very interesting reading some of those articles that you have available .

I am curious to know if you know of any of these people that were in Amway personally?

IM confronting my newly distributorship the my upline channels, and sue enough they are reacting to what was said as a bunch of FAILURES that got out of Amway.

One of my good friends id my direct up line, and if it isn't Amway way its no good… Like the Cult attitude.

Please replay with any comments or areas that I can research.. Thanks