Here are some of the responses I've received to the information on this page. I've left them as is, except for a) removing the names to protect privacy, and b) reformatting them to fit the screen better.
This is a long file…I suggest downloading it to your computer and reading it off-line.
My thanks to everyone who took the time to contribute their opinions.
[NOTE: Some of these messages contain offensive language]
Your web page is a fucking joke......cultism?......... manipulation? ......expensive tools?..........give me a break! How does a $6 BILLION company in 60 countries fall under any "Cult" classification. Who do you work for? Proctor and Gamble? Face it Schwartz, catalogue merchandizing is the wave of the future. Synergy and symbiosis in capitalism have been missing for how long? You heard Farrakan and what he complains to be the biggest problem in the black community: blood-sucking Jews who take truckloads of money out of his communities everyday. Can't we all just get along? In the realm of Amway we do..........tolerance of others isn't taught -- its EXPECTED. If Amway's approach to distributing consumables isn't the perfect answer to many of our society's problems, then what is? I'm obviously an Amway distributor. I started in L.A. and have since moved back to PA to help my relatives get started in their own Amway businesses. I probably have 7 different religions represented in my downline, 4 races, and 2 gay couples.....you mean to tell me that this thing is a cult? My downline is so diverse and from so many walks of life, how can one single idea control them? How can one person control anybody? Unfortunately you will never know the joy I experience by helping others take control of their own lives-- so that in the near future they can tell their boss at work to take a hike.
Open your eyes Schwartz, your missing the boat and hurting more people than Amway could ever hurt-- even if they tried.
--Sincerely, a 28 year old, Ivy League-educated, male WASP, with HIV an NO JOB-- HINT: I make more as an Amway distributor(15 hours/week) than the average American does in a 50-hour work week (National Average: $24,000/year.) Wake up and smell the Starbucks, owning your own cottage business is where its at--my Wharton degree only got me stress, not money AND time to spend it.
P.S. Don't bother to respond, I am at a public site at a coffe house in Manhattan.....Shalom.
I was just wondering if you found any other businesses that have been accused of fraudulant activity and if so what is the difference between them and Amway corp. I know Chevy a few years back was sued rightfully for knowingly constructing their trucks with the gas tanks on the outside of the frames, which through the years has killed or injured hundreds or even thousands. I also would like to know the latest status on these other MLM companies like Excel Telecommunications, Primerica Financial Services and one other that is strictly a MLM for servicing people with attorneys for a monthly charge and they also promise great wealth and fortune. My interest in this area has increased recently because I know of people that have both succeeded and failed in different MLM companies such as Amway, MaryKay, Discovery Toys, Primerica, and I know that this is a growing trend that is threatening the traditional storefront. Thank You for the info on the Amway Corp. but I would like to also see some positive info on this and these companies. It is sometimes very easy to find the bad in something due to that being human nature but I am trying to educate myself properly in seeing both sides of the issue or status. Thank You.
I have been an Amway distributor for 2 years and like a lot of people, I just got involved to make a few extra hundred dollars a month. This is a very realistic goal. All of the talk I've read on your site about people being forced to buy "tools", and losing money is their choice. This is a business like any other. The more success you want, the more you will have to invest in your business and yourself. Fact is most people that say they lost money and quit is only because they didn't follow what the tapes and seminars taught them. The only way to make money is to show the opportunity to people. It's a numbers game. I've read from your site people that have lost money on tools after being involved for a year and showing 15 plans. You should be doing 15 a month. My point is if you compare the return you can get from a small investment in this business, there is nothing better campared to owning another business. I know some people that have failed and dropped out of Harvard University, does that mean it's a bad school, or maybe those people just didn't apply themselves. Amway as a business opportunity and teaching system is the best in the world for the investment. More people should look at themselves first instead of someone to blame. Only one person is responsible for success or failure in life, and that's the individual…it's their choice.
Thank you for providing such excellent information.
schwartz I read all your Amway info. EXCELLENT…You hit the nail on the head. I realized 20 years ago Amway was a rip-off, when some friends tried to rope us into Amway. It is a PYRAMID SCHEME just think about it for a minute.......All the people at the top make the money from the people closer to the bottom.
Keep up the work!!!
I have read your inserts on Amway corporation and Britt and Yeager and I'm sorry but I gotta laugh, let me explain why. Most everyone here you state that were so called former Amway distributors in Britt and Yeager organization may have been but for some reason I doubt it. Alot of what you said is true but alot has also made me laugh. The true things have been on how they motivate people and encourage people to buy books and tapes but I have been back stage and I have been in charge of some of these functions and I have seen no such money being made from tapes and books like you claim. At all of the functions I have been at tapes and books have not even been sold. You must buy them from upline. I haven't seen this but believe me I'm gonna check it out and if I find my upline is making money from books and tapes I'm out of this business and I'll let you know. I have a few other comments first though.
Almost all of your quotes are from other organiztions that are competators with the Amway corporation like Olde Worlde and Quorum, it seems pretty funny to me how that happens. Seems like to me they are lying to get people to leave Amway and join their group.
I am part of a group known as World Wide Dream Builders headed by Ron Puryear. I have seen fincancial statments and read over many reports. I have sat down with employees of his company and talked to them away from the situation to see what the truth was and they showed me the financial records that only Diamonds on his council have access to. These records showed me that WWDB is a non-profit organization. I am a Ruby dirtect and have made no money on the books and tapes and I am very well off from the checks the Amway corporation has sent me. I built the business the way I have been taught, alot of width, and am within a year from going Diamond. Because of this business I have gotten God in my life and have built it entirely to help other people. If I get up to a level that is taking money from other people I will surely let you know because that is not right in any business. I have found my cause in life and that is to help people and there is no better way I have found yet to give "a hand up" and not "a hand out." Through this business so far I have helped people in dozens of marriages almost ready to fall apart stay together and be happier than ever. I have also helped put thousandds of dollars into families that were in need of money. To me there is no better way that I can help people. However, if awhile from now I find out that this business is using people to make dollars wrongly I'll let you know, if not I'll write back anyway. Another point I would like to make was in the Cultism section. It stated: American Journal article segment on Amway by sociologist and cult expert Jack Levin. He stated that "it gets people together in a common cause, surrounds then with social support, porvided charismatic leadership that gives them guidlines for living. This kinda sounds like to me any countries reason for being founded. This area on cultism really seems like you are fishing for a reason it is a cult because these reasons listed are the reasons companies are founded to make money that employees are hired to work for and all rallied around for the cause of the company and paid money for their help. A little weird don't you think?
Also noone has made the distiction between God and Free Enterprise and Politics and Religion. If you don't know the difference you'd better find out because their is a big difference.
People that have lost money simply have not built the business correctly as they have been taught, probably the same reason people quit because people quit anything in life. Look at the number of people who start medical shcool that quit every year. Its not Amway that makes people quit, people are people and people quit things, that's a fact of life. I went out and got some retail business started and like I was taught it paid for all the expenses I had in the business. The only money I ever spent out of my pocket was the 100 dollars to sign up and since I make over 10,000 a month from the Amway corporation, with photocopied and some original checks I could show you, I have well in excess of made that money back. So if you build it like you are suggested no money whatsoever will come out of your own pockett. Unless of course you are lazy and don't do what they suggested and quit because you spent alot of money, which can happen if you don't do retail.
Also I read an area that asked "let me know if you retire." Well I know three couples who have totally retired due to this business and I know two more who are very close. I myself am single and have less than a year to go to retirement and I'm only twenty three, sure is better than working for fourty years of my life. But I also stated that if this business is not helping others the way it states it is, and like I have already; if it is ripping them off; I'll let you know.
I've just been reading your web page "Amway - the Untold Truths".
I have been involved in many incidents and debates with Amway people.
I have one question: Has there been any update in the Britt/Yager lawsuit?
Also, As we all know, "Ambots" are often not very forthcoming about what company they are representing and often employ approaches that many feel are deceptive and misleading. Perhaps a nice addition to the page might be some related experiences people have had being approached by Amway. I also think it would be neat to cull that into an essay on "How to know when it's Amway".
Ambots are taught tricks to avoid revealing the name:
"Is this Amway?"
"Well, what do you mean by 'Amway'?"
"That pyramid scheme company" (or some other description that
might be argued isn't the whole truth about Amway
"No, this isn't a pyramid scheme"
…even though an honest answer to the first question is "Yes", they've avoided it.
And I have also been just out-and-out lied to about whether it's Amway and later told "Well, I knew you'd be prejudiced against it so I told you it wasn't Amway so that you'd hear the real story."
Point being that asking "Is this Amway?" is NOT ("never" in my experience) going to get you a straight answer.
An essay on how to identify an Ambot might be a nice addition to the web page. Regards,
BTW, here's another comparison with a religious group (I wrote this, you have my permission to post it):
There's an incredibility similarity between this issue and another one I've followed/participated. The other debate Christian pregnancy counciling services that avoid revealing their their Christian (read "anti- abortion") foundation. BTW, if you're interested, the Southern NH group doing that is called
Crisis Pregnancy Centers
The arguments they make to defend this are THE same ones (right on down the line) as the Amway people here make, although one important difference is that if you know enough to ask "Are you a christian organization?" to the best of my knowledge they will ALWAYS give you a straight direct answer (i.e. "yes").
1) They claim not to "lie" about anything (and I believe they do not)
2) They claim they do not "deceive" anyone, meaning (as it does here) they do no overt act of deception but concede that "it possible" that some folks may be deceived.
3) They claim they do it to avoid prejudice people have
4) They claim that at the end, the whole story is always given
5) They cite while some people may feel deceived by this, that "it works" and that the end results of "helping women" justifies this.
Any of these ring a bell? ;-)
p.s. I want to add that to the best of my knowledge, the Crisis Pregnancy Centers in particular do not use any intimidation tactics like many other such clinics do or show stuff like "The Screaming Fetus" (not sure of that title).
I have no problem with how this group claims to actually do the councilling, but I have a big problem with the subterfuge.
MY FRIEND T. JUST SIGNED UP WITH AMWAY 5 DAYS AGO AND THEN HE DID HIS DUE DILLIGENCE AND HAS CHANGED HIS MIND. DO YOU OR ANYONE KNOW ANY WAY HE CAN GET REIMBURSED HIS MONEY SHORT OF HIRING A HIT MAN? ARE THERE ANY CREATIVE IDEAS OR PRESSURE HE CAN BRING TO BEAR ON THE DIRECT THAT SIGNED HIM UP THAT MAY CONVINCE THIS PERSON IT IS IN THE COMPANY'S BEST INTEREST TO GIVE HIM A REFUND???
One thing you may be missing in all of this rhetoric is the fact that what Dexter and his followers are really selling is an idea! An idea that is needed. An idea about a concept called positive thinking. An idea about "Nothing great is ever achieved without enthusiasm". An idea about people's needs to make a positive difference in the people's lives that surround them. Maybe, that's what Dexter is really selling.
Passion, Purpose, and Focus.
I am really sorry for your attitude regarding Dexter's system. It is actually making quite a few people very successful spiritually and financially. It is true free enterprise! If you want to pull yourself up from your bootstraps--go ahead. In addition, doesn't it make sense to you that if you have built a large enough business that you should profit share. Including tools and other literature benefiting distributors. I am not even a profit-sharing direct but this makes sense to me!! Your tools scam articles are bogus…its just free enterprise!
I've got a good friend of mine in this organization. Both he and his wife are involved, I guess for the last 7 months. I have been trying to get him to do some research on his spending, but he dismisses me as trying to talk him out of this 'business'. I would like to know how I might be able to get him to see what is happening with his life, etc… He was trying to get my wife and I involved. He said he wanted to come over and see our new house we bought, but when I told him we weren't interested, neither was he in coming over. He is brain- washed, and he even admits it! Is there another approach I could take, I'm lost for ideas Thanks for your information, I've downloaded all of it (on the 'Amway untold truths page)
Thanks for all the info. Just two months ago I was introduced to Amway through a colleague from a former job. It was a very secretive process-Amway was never mentioned until I attended a Thursday night meeting which I later found out was a recruitment meeting. Before I even signed up I was being coerced into going to a rally in Connecticut on a Saturday of the same week. I did not attend as I had other obligations.
But I did become a distributor and for the past several weeks have been purchasing household products through my upline. And there is always two tapes per week at $5.50 per tape plus a monthly book. Yes, I did sign the application to receive these products before I knew the underlying reason was for these "motivational materials"
Now that I know some of the underlying motives behind Amway I have totally lost my interest-not to mention finding out that there is a pending lawsuit in this organization.
I have let my sponsor know that I am leaving Amway as a distributor. My nature and personality will not allow me to scam others into a false sense of security with an alterior motive of making someone else wealthy when in reality a distributor can loose an exhorbitant amount of money and time. I have not attended any out of town meetings at all, just the Thurday night recruitment meetings. I am on a budget and am just making ends meet. I have found that there are little extra expenses like shipping and handling and those "motivational materials" which throw me over-budget plus the extra wear and tear on my car, gasoline expense and more importantly-my time. By the time I pay "wholesale" plus all the extras I am paying way mre than retail. I was told that this is not a price savings club but a money generating club. What did I know. These guys had an answer for everything. They say 10-15 hours per week. More like 20-40 hours per week with all the plan showing, product pick up, and those weekly meetings 20 miles from my home. I work 55 miles from my home and do not appreciate having to drive even more when I get home. Oh yes, I have shown the plan and have received only not interested replys. If maybe one out of one hundred people says yes and the drop out rate is 50% that seems like a no win situation-kind of really skewed time invested money payback ratio if you ask me.
I am glad I am getting out of this thing before I get taken over by it like so many others. Again, I really appreciate the info on this subject
Wow, are you ever bitter. I didn't find one nice word. Glad you're getting all this Amway rage out. Wouldn't want it to bottle up. Too bad you're bitterness might dissuade someone else from making a rational decision. Talk about a one-sided argument!
Thank you for your response to my "experiences with Amway". Here's a short one for your collection. Earlier this week I had called my sponser to ask that we might have to change product pick up day from Wednesday at 7PM to Thursday because on Wednesday night a "DIAMOND DISTRIBUTOR" would be guest speaking at a hotel 20 miles from where I live and of course I was "expected" to be there. Realize that at this point I had only been involved in this for less than two months. I can now understand how easily it is for someone to become obsessed with something in a short period of time. Well, by Tuesday I had started to read information on the Net that my upline would probably not want me to know about. I became really turned off by this whole Amway thing rather quickly and wondered why I had gotten involved in the first place. I remembered that I only needed an extra $10,000 per year to be more comfortable. This was one of my "DREAMS" as they call it. I thought Amway could deliver this "DREAM" part time. Guess what? Not!…at least not as I could see it. You will spend more than that trying to keep up with attending their motivational meetings none of which I attended…I cannot afford it!!!!! They will make you think that you can aford it for you success.
By Wednesday I had left a message to my sponser on AMVOX…the voice mail you're expected to maintain [this cost's money too] saying I was getting involved in another business and would not have time for AMWAY. I left it at that. I did not attend the Wednesday night "Diamond" meeting or any other major event for that matter!
By Thursday I wanted out of Amway but was not sure how to do this. I did not show up for product pick up [when you buy things for your personal weekly use, you are expected to drive to your sponsers house and pick them up and pay for them]. I did not show up because I really did not want them at this point.
Ah, it's Friday…the morning at "WORK" is going well, the phone rings…it's my sponser. I had not listened to any of my AMVOX voicemail messages for 24 hours--I think I would have puked if I did. Well, if you think it's easy to get out of AMWAY let me tell you that my sponser and I were on the phone for 40 minutes debating about AMWAY and why I decided to leave. He pulled out all the stops, but because I was informed, he became frustrated and asked me if I would pick my products up Friday night at 7.
I arrived at 7PM that evening, went to the door asked if he was home, his sister said no. I thought to myself that I would wait a while because he did say pick up at 7PM tonight. I waited until 7:25 in my car. A few minutes prior to this I saw the front door open and his sister come out with a phone in her hand then she went back in. I waited several more minutes she came out again and then I walked to the house expecting to tell her that I had to leave. She said that there was a message she forgot to tell me....that her brother went to the city and that he left my products for pick up.
Sobeit… I picked up my products and left. Was this punishment for missing my previous night's pick up??? This will be mt last pick up.!
After I got home the phone rang. It was another Amway upline. My quit message must have reached deep. "How ya doing, is everything all right?" I knew what this was about and I had no interest in hearing it. What ever happened to the word "NO"?
These people become your "friends" and then take you over…if you let them! Be prepared. Don't feel guilty to say no if yo do not feel comfortable. If someone pressures you [he/she]most likely want something from you.
I find that 80% of your research just plain not true. Who were you looking at anyways? Every good business has people in it that are bad news - Do some research into an organization called International Connection - Its president is triple diamond Brian and Marg Hayes. Also look at the growth in New York City - there are Hispanic people that were destin to slum conditions that are now making more money than you and able to help their fellow person do the same!!! Some of the Jewish people could be looked at as a cult - they stick together and help each other. I'm just saying - Please research International Connection and you will find no chanting, mind changing or any other thing but down to earth business meetings complete with sucess stories.
Everybody has a story to tell - but to each story there is always another side - Please contact Mr. Hayes - He lives in Chicago.
It was really a surprise for me to find out about these facts about Amway and by the Internet of Dexter Yager.
I did not verify the source of your informations, but I will do it in the near future, what I am doing now is simply forwarding a printout of your pages to other Amway distributors (which are not on the 'net) and let them decide what they want to do from there.
I've recently switched from the tape-of-the-week from "Internet" to the tape program that comes from Amway, and I've got quite misinformations from my upline (like that Amway does not have a tape program, or that those tapes are for sales only etc. etc.) Since that, I am trying to get a refund of a seminar that I was not able to attend (2 tickets, $28 each), and I've got no answer from my upline.
I just want to compliment with you for your work, the fact that Amway distributors should not "crossline" is also a good system to cover all this activity.
Think about the Voice Mail system, My upline diamond can send a mesage to all the downlines in his group, but I cannot send a message to all the people to his group unless I send a message to him first asking to brodcast the mesage (filtering informations).
Please let me know where I can find more informations about this subject.
This is a fascinating dicussion area on the web. I have just returned from my first meeting with the group, and I was presented the material in exactly the fasion that so many others have given testimony to here. I recently graduated from college and I got a job with a company here in Georgia. I was eating dinner at a nice restaurant with my wife when I was approached by a young man about my age. He and his wife were at the restaurant eating at the table next to us. He began to chat with us about how I looked familiar to him. Now I realize that all of his questions were an attempt to get to know me and my life to gain an angle in which he could pitch his proposal. We only chatted breifly at the restaurant and as he and his wife were leaving he stated that perhaps we would run into each other in the future. Thinking that he and his wife were just two people that were just making friendly chat, my wife and I thought nothing of their approach. Three weeks later I received a page on my company beeper. When I called the number, I was shocked that it was the person that I had met in the restaurant. He said that he was just taking a stab in the dark but he wanted to present me with an oppourtunity to look at a unique businness oppourtunity. I said ok and we met over the weekend. He was very shady in telling me any details of what the business name was or what the company was all about. All he would talk about was what I wanted in life and what I wanted for my family. I gave him the generic answer that any young business person would give…to be financially secure. He then told me that the way that the business conducted itself enabled you to utilize a sales background but that that was not the only way to succeed. Then I agreed to "meet some of his other business partners" at a meeting. So I said o.k. He also said that the company was very family oriented and that I should bring my wife so that the company knew that I had her support. I then started to think of the movie "The Firm" with Tom Cruise!! We went to the meeting just hours ago and I still felt as though there was a lot of information missing from the presentation. The discussion from the leader of the group was full of all kinds of double speak aimed at finding out what everyone wanted in life. The actual aspects of the business were carefully circumnavigated. The meeting was ended by all of the people in the group who were "so excited aboout the concept" and we were all told "You should not let this chance pass you by" and "I am so thankful that I was introduced to this business opourtunity" When I got home I wanted to research the company a bit. By the way I did not find out that this "Amazing oppourtunity" was Amway until about one and one-half hours into the presentation. Now I am the one saying "I am so thankful" not for the business oppourtunity but for this database of testimonials that I found.
I am totally put off by the whole concept of being decieved by this individual in order to get me into this meeting. I cannot fathom a company which does not even have the faith in their business to tell a prospect up front that the group at the helm is Amway!! I feel as though I have already been lied to in a sense and I am not even a member. Thank You!
I would like to say That anyone I have ever meant who had a problem with Amway never knew much about it. It was always someone who failed that they focused on or a resentment towards someone who made it. Amway is the supplier and a very good on at that (6.3Billion Fy-95). It paid 65% of that back to distributors. Does anywhere you shop and refer people to give you the potential to earn Money for your efforts? NOT! As far as they tapes go, I my organization they are promoted and you have the right to choose. If you want a big business you probably want to learn from someone who has done it instead of someone who quit. I could go on but AMWAY Speaks for it self and FREE ENTERPRISE is live and well in America. Despite the have nots and free ride apathetic thinking that Plagues 98% of people in America, I have the right to the pursuit of happiness not a Guaranteed Welfare Check
When I find that authors that take advantage of the media and only tell a basied view of the facts, they lose all creditablity. Since Amway now has there own home page. I would suggest that you do a little more investigation into what Amway is doing for the world community. You might want to read a book like "Built to Last" to find out where Amway stands among other great Corp. I have worked for many of the top Corp. in this country and they all don't have the same great standard of ethics that the Amway Corp does. If you want to look at MLMs in general I would suggest that you look at others that are being looked at by the government presently. My network connection is timing out!
Dear Mr. Schwartz:
Last week, I subjected myself to viewing a cryptic & moronic videotape: "Business Opportunities 2001," which was delivered to me by a local "businessman." It only took a few minutes scanning the net for me to ascertain that this was an Amway recruiting tool. I gave it back to the "businessman" on the sidewalk in front of my house (no "coffee session" as he had envisioned.)
Just as in the videotape, he never once used the "A" word, but he didn't deny that he was an Amway "distributor" either. He still tried to convince me to take advantage of this "opportunity" by drawing little pictures of houses which were inhabited by people who buy household goods "the old fashioned way," (at the stores, I guess.) I told him to start knocking on doors & selling those amazing products instead of recruiting "entrepeneurs." Ends up he consumes his quota of $400 per month himself - doesn't sell to anyone. I asked for his business card, which has an unregistered company name, he & and his wifes phone number (unlisted by Nynex in his wifes name only), & no address. Amway is not mentioned on his card either.
I told him that his video was deceptive not only in that it didn't mention Amway by name, but that scenes of people at their PC terminals was a bit off also. It seems that Amway has ordered all distributors to stop taking orders or recruiting via their own personal web/net sites. The Amway web page, www.amway.com - is up, with a new look - today , 11/2/95, is their "Grand Opening."
Not all the links are active there yet - but it looks like they will be selling & recruiting on-line via the corporate page only. "Distributor Profiles" will lead to info about select distributors. Mr Yager & Mr.Britt are there along with their spouses. (Can a single person or, God forbid, a gay couple become Amway distributors?) And I wonder if the "Entrepeneur" who delivers my order will receive a full commission? If I join Amway via their homepage, at the base of what pyramid will I dwell? Will I be a bottom feeder in a local chain, or be assigned to one of the "North American Distrubutors" featured on their hompage?
Please forgive me if I missed it on your page, but what is the current status of the lawsuits against Bill Britt & Dexter Yager? Have they been resoved, or is Amway just "standing by their men" by displaying thrm prominently on the Amway web page?
Thanks for your untold truths,
You need to get a life! That is fine, Amway is not for you. There are a lot of positive aspects to the business that you have no clue about that makes the businsess that over 2.5 million people around the world are interested in. What do you have thats better for my families future. Are you going to pay my families bills? Well my Amway business is currently doing that. What are you possitive about in life. Why don't you find something positive to do with your life.
Happily an Amway Distributor!!!
Are these sociologists, psychologists and cult experts broke? If so, I don't have any telling.
Thank You for your kind response. The AMWAY presentation that I attended promoted getting rich with AMWAY. I think that the only people getting rich are high in the AMWAY organization, I've read the top 1% of distributors. AMWAY highlights executive diamond(s) in their monthly magazine,(one in October out of 2.5 million distributors), but this is at a probability level comparable with winning LOTTO. It's misleading to promote a rich easy life when 99% of AMWAY distributors are not going to make it. I've read that half of the 2.5 million AMWAY distributors leave AMWAY every year, so AMWAY attracts the new people with this "rich" dream. These new people buy the promotional tapes and educational material probably at a greater rate than those already in AMWAY for a while. AMWAY makes most of its money from these promotions. I think people will follow as they followed Adopf Hilter, with a dream of ruling the world, or a dream of getting rich. I think this AMWAY method is totally wrong and should be outlawed! Let me know if I can help in any way.
The Amway Company currently pays out 72% of sales to its distributors. 72% of around $6,500,000,000 each year accounts for quite a bit of income.
The Yeager organazation has been known to sell a lot of junk to its distributor force, and most of it is junk - worthless stuff. But many organazations are very on the up and up.
Most of the money made is from the movement of goods and services.
If this were not true, then why would over 500 companies market products through Amway? Companies like LA Gear, Panasonic, Coke, Ford.... ect. These products move, and distributors make a profit.
The Problem with Amway is that MOST distributors simply do nothing but attend rallies and listen to tapes, they never APPLY the information they are given.
If the people involved in all of this negativity had approached their Amway businesses with a positive attitude and a fraction of the energy they're wasting on venom and law suits, they could have counted themselves among the thousands of successful Amway Distributors instead of among the long list of miserable malcontents who enrich a growing group of our country's lawyers with their "Sour Grapes" law suits.
Don't bother to reply. I won't be wasting more of my time at this site.
I really wish that when people are critical of the Amway business they would compare it to other bussiness. I see many people who have never ran or operated a "real" business get bent when after 2 years in the Amway business they have a net loss of $1,000 or so dollers, or whatever. Keep in mind the average small business takes $35,000 to start, has an 85% chance of failing (SBA #'s), and takes an average of five years to come out of the red. Yet when some guy gets in Amway and doesn't make it, it is some how not thier fault. I personaly know people who make $70,000/year to $287,000/year. It took a lot of HARD work to get there. I also know some people who have lost $490,000 in some "real" businesses.
I have read your extensive article on the Tools Scam involved with "Amway", and as a distributor, know that NONE of those tools come from the corporation "Amway". Those tools are sold by individual distributors, to individual distributors, and have nothing to do with the viability or ethics of the Amway Corporation. Amway is a corporation with prestige in the business world, and your commentary unfairly and erroneously attaches their name to the individual business practices of one or two of their 2.5 million independant distributors. Whether of not those individual distributors are involved in a "Scam" is by all means open to public debate, but by ignorantly displaying Amway as the manufacturer of a "Tools Scam", or "Untold Truth", I am of the believe that it is you, not Amway, who is deceiving the public.
You really should make sure your information about Amway Corporation and other information pertaining to Amway (prices, expenses, income, etc.) is accurate before publicizing it anywhere. Have you ever been an Amway distributor? I seriously doubt it.
Hey Jason what's your problem. Lighten up. There's bad and good in everything. I have no problem you telling the bad but how about the good.
God bless and get help!
My problem is that when we were unable to go to our first function, our upline suddenly no longer had time to meet with us or our prospects. I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but when we try to explain our problem and lack of $$, we are told "buy a book or a tape on financial management and that will help, attend a function- it will give you hope". When we were going to FED our downline suddenly had to cancel his plans to go after already paying for the trip due to an emergency-it was well within the time applications were still being accepted for the function-and we tried to get the money returned. We were told that we should "encourage" him to "find a way-if he really wants to go he'll find a way". Now we're approaching Leadership and our upline has told us if we really want to build the business we can find a way despite our dire situation-in so many words we were told to not make payments due or not eat a meal a day to pay for it.
This just seems so extreme!! It is turning off our downline and new prospects and while I think the business can work and WANT to make it work, I want to keep paying my bills, too! I want to make some money on retail sales to pay for this and am working on it, but meanwhile feel so much pressure to pay NOW for this next function, that I tend to avoid attending plans and meetings because I don't want to be pressured into doing something I can't right now. We've discussed this with our upline directs and they either seem to not believe us or don't get it and just suggest more tapes and books!
The above is taken from a letter on the "expenses" section of your home page.
This is an example of an 'upline' who does not understand this business. It makes sense for him to help this person get one or two legs going if he is going to funtions or not, if this person is willing and actualy puting people in frount of the plan.
A side note, I am a distribuitor, I have been approched by three orginazations (i.e. large orgs, like Yeager's). Two of these I will not and did not associate myself with. In my opinion, things Yeager's group has done/is doing are unethical. However - there are GOOD orginazations out there, and the Amway corp. is encoutraging those groups and distancing itself from the rouges. One MUST realize that most (99.99%) of what people are hacked off about is individual's - thier upline. I know of few people who REALY know how to make this business work. But, these people can and do succesfully teach others to make GOOD money in the Amway business.
This person who is cash poor and can't get to funtions, I would help then get one or two legs going - it benifits me. But we need to look at this like a business. The functions I go to in My org. are VERY helpful, and I think they are FAR better than the seminars I go to for work. Lets put this in perspective. When you figure the bonuses for going direct, a direct makes about 35-40,000/year. (that comes from the famous forbes mag that ya'all like to quote) - Every direct I know makes this, I know about 15 or so. What does it take to make that - or 2/3's of that in the job world? Education. I spent close to 60,000 on my college education and i make less than any of the directs I know. How many people spend 10's of thousands of dollers becoming CPA's, and other profesionals? Why aren't we outraged at colleges for selling 40K educations knowing that the students will never, most of them, make more than a good plumber? What about the dropouts from med school, who in reality lost the money they invested? And what happens to the CPA who "can't afford" his/her contenuing education?
In life there are people who don't make it
Amway is no diferent, except that your upline should (many don't) help you TONS, that is why people need to really look at WHO they are geting in with, NOT avoid the greatest deal ever to come thier way…
Thanks for confirming what I always suspected. That is that any idiot can play with information long enough to stifle himself!
of course, Amway isn't for everyone! That much was always obvious, and I am thankful, because I don't want to be ina business with everyone. But I am above average, and my individual efforts will make difference, and I will be sheer force of will be part of the successful statistic as opposed to the working mass. But don't look to Amway for the confirmation or condemnation of that principle, instead look to any religious document you choose, which if your an average AMericanas you propose to be means go look in the Bible (and before you can assume, noI am not Christian!)
Have you performed the same anal ysis on your job or profession, or some honorable profession like real estate, or auto sales, or stock brokers or medicine (starting at those individuals entering school with the intention of being a doctor?)
I doubt it. Grow up! Get a life.
Have fun being broke!
I thought I'd relay our lucky escape from becoming an Amway distributor.
He said that he was looking to expand into our area of the UK and would I be interested. We said Yes and I arranged to meet at a neutral location. I had been involved in Amway before and its evangelical apprach, lack of real profits, and pushing from my upline had annoyed me enough to pack it in. After the initial meeting, 'John' and his wife came round a few days later.
Yes, they bombarded us with compliments, kindness and the 'hope' not soap routine.
I said that I did not like the evangelical approach and they both sat there and said nothing. I now know that the silences to questions or situations during that evening were either an admission of 'guilt' or because they were not pre-programmed with answers from their sales tools. I was foolish enough to part woth £20 for a seminar some 70 miles away. That night my pregnant wife could not sleep and was ill with the worry of the committment to the business, and the seminar. The next day I used the WWW to find out more and found your pages. It soon became clear that the products were average and overpriced, and that the main money was earnt from seminars and light weight sales tapes and motivational aids. I read the article on cults with interest and saw that that the subtle techniques to which we had been subjected were associated with mind control. One small example was the very disapproving look I recived for being dressed in jeans.
Anyway the next day, I sent them a polite letter firm;y declining their offer. I made it quite clear that no further contact was expected.
We had been looking for economic freedom and we are not prepared to sacrifice our way of life for one based on a culture where money is god.
Thanks for the material on Amway. I have several friends who are getting in over their heads and I want them to see what you have provided. I know some people who could use half the energy they put into Amway, in a standard busines and truly become financially independent. I sold the products about fifteen years ago, and I quit when I saw that I couldn't make a decent profit with it.
Good Luck and Thanks,
What is your problem, The only way you want to is to put down others get a life pal.grow up and get a real job.
Thank you for having a look at this letter.
My personal Background
I am a South African living in ******* I am a Dental Sugeon.
I have observed that there has been so much critisizm leveled at the different distributorships associated with Amway. There were many letters sent to various editors reflecting how people have after 3 Weeks or 3 Months tried the business but it caused more havoc in their lives than give them money. After studying many successful people in all spheres of life some things that stands out to me are :
Successful people :
1. Long term thinkers 5 - 10yr business plans
2. Persistant and consistant in their efforts
3. They help others achieve
4. They only succeed by helping others succeed first
5. They are critisized by lazy people who try to pull them down so that they don't appear to look bad doing nothing with their lives.
6. They read positive books daily, listen to Positive tapes and associate only with people who are positive and who have a dream and set goals.
7. Listen to people who are in a position where they would like to be in one day.
8. Hard workers and are teachable.
9. Learn to duplicate successful peoples work habits.
All these features I find evident in the Britt team of distributors, as an outsider it impresses me. To me I realise by the comments that statistics are once again proven correct, 95% of people won't make it financially in life because they are busy critisizing those who are doing somethings with their lives.
As a comment on the likes of Dexter Yager and Bill Britt my knowledge of their accomplishments is that they have helped more people become financially wealthy than any of the critics who are apposed to their distributorships. They seem to have the fruit on the tree. They promised to help people make money and even if they only acomplished it with 5% they have probibly done their well ( understanding that statistics is on their side 95% won't do it and will be the critics).
My final remark is if one analysis the " normal" businesses out their in big corporate companies we will see that it diplays less altruism to it's employees than the Britt's have toward their business (downline) associates. When one works for a salary the boss pays you usually the least amount and he demands that you work for years while he benefits from your labour, you will never earn more than him.
In the Amway business I have studied that if you as an individual work harder than the person who helped you get started you can definitely earn more than them. For example if any of Bill Britt's downlines build a bigger personal downline than his they will generate more money than Bill even though every one is included in Bills group. To fully understand that you have to study the true Multi Level Marketing System ( Not to be confused with Matrix Systems, Pyramid or chain letter systems where who gets in first makes the most, thats a scam ) in MLM who ever does the most work benefits the most.
I feel that if Bill Britt makes more money in a month than most people earn in a life time as a result of him helping hundreds of other people make millions themselves why critisize the man. Some comment on Bill and Dexter making big money not only on marketing products but also the literature & tapes. In my opinion If I had access to listen to successful people teach me how to achieve success I will pay for it and would have no objection to whoever makes the tapes to get the money, hey ! if you could teach as well as they do , help as many people as they did be as wealthy as they are , maybe then somebody will listen to you.
You will know them by their FRUIT.
Ps. We should at least realize that if it wasn't for the successful people in the world who would the critics write about, it's only those who try something that will be critisized, if you havn't been critisized then ask yourself the question, WHAT AM I DOING WITH MY LIFE ?
id love to get the chance to meet with you. Its been my experience- first hand that the few individuals with enough guts to meet with me begin to understand that they actually have no clue what they're talking about. Most of these individuals, sadly to say, spend their entire life in front of a computer screen, have no actual business experience, are social outcasts themselves, are venting their frustrations which came from a less than professional experience with a new, developing distributer, or a mix of the above.
It has been my experience over the past 3 years that a person is very hard-pressed to find an unsuccessful distributer as long as the distributer followed two guidelines.(1) They WORKED the business for at least 5 years. (2) They followed the instructions.
I will give you this point-there are some unprofessionals in this business just as there in whatever you do. Anyone who devotes as much time attempting to destroy the efforts of others like you do must is as wrong in my eyes as the unprofessional distributer who obviously ticked you off sometime in the past.
I will give you this accolade-you at least had the guts to put a return address on your comments so I can retort as you deserve. Most of the individuals who
Hello sid I am a 16 year guy and my dad has been a member of that club Amway and let me tell you were all of our money has gone. TOO THEM LEACHES. His favoret our them dam tapes. You wont believe how i found your web page . One of those Ampunks came to my dads store to drop somthing off when i kept on asking him questions about his business it was so boring and pathetic. After he was done i asked him if they are in the internet and he said yes and that i should check it out HAHAHAHAHAH and all that i found are web pages dogin on them . Sid i didn't find not one good thing about there cause in the internet so far
Today my dad bought some christmas cards from them and they charged close to $50.00 ($1.61 to be exact for each) and they weren't good quality either the dam things were riped. We were happy withoput them ampunks lying to my dad. I mean we live in a big house with a pool behind a lake what more does he want. By the way excuse me my name is Kevin its nice to meet you Sid. Well mail me back because me and mom are getting some friends and family to talk to him and we are printing your papers . I wouldlike to thank you for your work
I am very interested and happy to see your information about Amway here on the Internet. This is the sort of info that anyone should have access to before they make a decision to involve themselves in such an organization. Any more info from Canadian ex-members of Amway would be very much appreciated.
We have a relative, who following a divorce, and therefore during a vulnerable time in her life, was recruited by a friend and is now involved in this scam. We are VERY concerned as she will be retiring from the workforce soon and Amway seems to be draining her financially. Naturally our concerns are met with the standard Amway retorts… which is why I am downloading your information from this site so that we can approach this rationally and with our statistics ready.
Your item on cultism is very applicable, as the male individual who recruited her seems to have become the male substitution for her ex- husband.... sincere, caring, believable, etc, etc.
Any assistance would be appreciated.
Dear Mr. Schwartz,
I realize you must receive a high volume of mail from your excellent "Amway -- The Untold Truths" website, but I am in need of advice, and the quality of the information at the site leads me to believe you might be able to help.
A friend of mine has recently become involved in Amway: specifically the "World Wide Dream Builders" (WWDB) organization. He is fairly young, and I think seeking a sense of community, and of belonging. However, in the handfull of months he has been involved, he has spent thousands of dollars -- albiet Canadian ones -- and his return has been less than a hundred.
My questions are:
1) Is there a source of information specific to the organizations *within* the Amway conglomerate (Specifically the aforementioned WWDB)?
2) Who within the Canadian government is responsible for investigations of organizations such as this (I should say I tried the obvious sources of information here: Consumer and Corporate Affairs, The BC Ministry of Finance, and The BBB. The only information gathered from those conversations was a droning recitation of the blurb provided to the national BBB by Amway -- although they did have a record of WWDB being a subsidiary of Amway).
3) Do you know of someone who is familiar with the WWDB network in British Columbia, with whom I could consult regarding issues specific to the local network.
My friend is a rational, and fairly practical person, and I feel if I am going to present this information to him it must be equally rational, and also fairly specific to his "upline," since his sponsors et al have "explained" that with Amway you don't have to behave the same as everyone else to be successful (even though they all did, to the letter).
I am very troubled by what I have learned about this organization, and I worry about the effect it will have on my friend, and on our friendship. I appreciate any suggestions you may have.
Reliance on 1983 quotes to perpetuate your sour grapes indicates one of two sets of circumstances; 1. you've been out of touch with the business for 12 years, or 2, you have no interest in acknowledging the continuing success of a 36 year old company whose entry into 70 countries and territories with approximately 2.5 million distributors provides a level of success formerly unknown to thousands and thousands of satisfied and profitable business people.
Take your pick.
Its interesting to note the absence of an alternative point of view in your postings. If your interest is in fully informing your readers, you might want to consider providing both sides of the issue. Alternatively, you might want to let the Federal Trade Commission and the courts of this land deal with these issues, as they have successfuly throughout the evolution of Amway. Unlike your postings, each considers both sides of these issues. Your continuing efforts evidence only your inability to accept the decisions and regulations of this country's system, which is based in equity rather than sour grapes.
The fact that I won't see this posting in your area proves my point. -----
Jason Is Sidney Schwartz a disgruntled Amway distributor with a vengence? Why would someone put so much time and energy into bad mouthing them? Perhaps he has too much time on his hands?
Thank-you for your informative pages about multi-level marketing. I have been looking for information like this for years.
I can't tell you how many times I have been approached for Multi-Level, Pyramid, Airplane and all other related network marketing schemes. Furthermore, I can't tell you how many friendships that I have lost from their constant calling and harrassement over the past few years.
I have been to one of those hotel meetings, immediately after graduating from college in '92 and was sickened by the slide show they had with everybody standing in front of their Rolls Royce and Mercedes cars. Furthermore, nobody from these types of companies can tell me anything about the products that they sell!
So why isn't Harvard Business School all over this multi-million dollar concept? I can't stand these networking fools that prey on the weak and young.
Anyhow, I appreciate your sites insight and value the service that you have provided. If you might have any other sources or other ideas of people to contact for more information, I would greatly appreciate it. All I seem to find on the net is advertising from these Pyramid scam guru's.
Thanks sooo much,
My friend and I have just been to a meeting, Sunday evening in fact. We are very grateful for your comments on the organisation ,Amway. I think you have just saved us from financial ruin.
Once again, thankyou.
I joined Amway last week (with my husband) & we both felt like we were 'taken in'. When I found your info I D/L'd it & printed it out. My sponser & her upline want to see it. Is that OK with you? I told my sponser items from memory…she was speechless!!! You wouldn't believe how quickly we got calls from the DD. Thanks so much! Any further update on lawsuits? (I was in Britt line!)
Thank you for your work on the "Amway Story". We were recently approached with The System and did not bite. We were surprised at some of those listed in the upline though and after just having spent an hour going through your informative pages I can only hope they see the light soon. Thanks again for confirming our decision to stay out.
My name is * and my wife and I have been in the business for about three years now. I'm active duty military and my wife is a stay at home mom. We've hit about 600pv on a good month just to show you where we stand. My sponsor is a Pearl. For years now I've been beating myself up, not knowing what is wrong with me..why the business just doesn't become profitable for us. We've declared a loss all three years. Until I found your page I didn't know there were people out there with rational reasons why Amway didn't work for them..or at least the "Britt" system. In the business your a "loser" if you don't stick it out. The stories of the cash being made off the backs of unsuspecting distributers has really disturbed me. Do you think I should confront my Sponsor? Please contact me at *
Recently a co-worker tried to coerce my husband and I into the "scheme." Truly this "opportunity", as it was referred to, is a bunch of bullshit. When he could not 'fess up as to what this "opportunity" was until he had gone through his sales pitch, I was about ready to pitch. Lies, deception and fantasy are the motivation of this scam. I cannot criticize this deception strongly enough. I see a wasted man putting in wasted hours to reach for a non-existent wealth which cannot and willnot bring true happiness regardless.
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
I am an Amway Distributor and I find your article very disturbing! Although I do find it disturbing, it is not in the way that the 5 distributors found it! Amway is not a cult and has not done anything to hurt anyone such as "Fortunes In Motion".
Amway has been checked out many times by the Federal Government and has always survived the inquiries! Also amway is not a pyramid! Even if you sponsor people and they have more points than you do at the end of the month, they get more money than you do! The definition of a pyamid is a business where the bottom person cannot surpass the person above them! This is not true in Amway! I can make more money than my sponsor! I believe that the five distributors that are filing this suit are whining babies who didn't have enough self- motivation to go out and build their business or take the time out for their business! In my mind they are just a bunch of "fat lazy slobs who wouldn't even get up to change their toilet paper roll! I also find the rally's and meetings very fullfilling! Let me ask you this! If amway is a cult, then wouldn't the Roman Catholic Church or a College Choir be a cult? Just because they help you believe in something that you might not have had the power to believe in before and sing songs, doesn't mean that you are a CULT! Music is the Univerwsal Language and is used in many different ways to help people and to praise our Lord Jesus Christ! This really angers me! I am a Music Education Major and to read something about music being related to cults really pisses me off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do people always have to make things out to be so bad! That is why the world is what it is! YOU CAN TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS THAT AMWAY IS GREAT! OH BY THE WAY WOULD YOU LIKE TO LOOK AT A BUSINESS THAT I AM EXPANDING? I WOULD BE GLAD TO SPONSOR YOU! REMEMBER THEY ARE FIVE BUT WE ARE MILLIONS! 5 COMPARED TO MILLIONS IS NOT SUCH A STRONG NUMBER FOR A CIVIL LAWSUIT! IF YOU WANT TO BUY SOME PRODUCTS FROM ME JUST E-MAIL ME BACK!
WE WILL SEE WHO ENDS UP THE RICH, WEALTHY AMERICANS AND AND WHO ENDS UP THE LOW DOWN LAZY PEOPLE!
REMEMBER YOU HAVE TO WORK YOUR BUSINESS TO MAKE IT PROSPER!
Thank you very much for the information in untold truths
This is the ONLY subject on which I agree with your position.
I am a currently inactive Amway distributor, and I have recently become an employee of Primerica Financial Services, Inc. I was VERY surprised to see that:
1. Primerica sales agents are not required to buy tapes or books, and my upline (yes, they use that term) hasn't done anything at all to push them on me. My Amway upline pushes them on me all the time---- which is why I became inactive.
2. Primerica training tapes are MUCH less expensive than those offered by Amway ($1.25 vs. $5.61). Also less expensive are rally tickets.
Hi Just a quick note of thanks for the page and info.
Was borred tonite waiting for *** to come home, to begin our thksg vacation. Her son (amway believer, thru his sister) was here and I mentioned "Internet Connection", he said, "Ya, Amway is on it." Great.
Okay, why not chk it out, not intending to find dirt. BTW, I don't believe in it, but their mother is kinda ?? buying it so they can be RICH!!!!!!!-suckers.
Well, stumbled onto your stuff and spent one hr reading. Explained later to Sue. I told her, "I can't give this stuff to your kids (they in late 20's & early 30's, married, young kids-prime suckers!!!)". Sue insisted I print it and she'll read, if valid, give to kids.
In closing, expect to hear again from me w/successful story of two more (4 in all) who have said, "It's a scam". Yes, they have been going to all the wkend doings, as we babysit. Have you seen that b/f?
thks for the enlitement!!
Good nite. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving Holiday
I was visited by my friend from school about amway the other night. after two hours of listening to his speech he FINALY left. My coffee table was piled with a heap books and tapes. My wife and I talked about it for a few minutes and then I decided to check out the "net." I feel grateful for your valuable information. After reading your pages I really don't think amway is for me. My future looks much brighter without amway than with it.
Just out of curiousity. Why do you have a web page to slam Amway, Britt, and Yeager? Yes, I'm in the Amway business, so I must be one of the "brainwashed" people that can't understand why you would keep such a page. Did you get burned at one time or what?
Thanks for the really helpful information. I wanted to tell you that the information that I found on your page probably saved me and my friends a lot of headaches.Once again THANKS.
Thanks for your response to my questions on Amway.
As to your feelings toward this "business venture" all I can say is "DITTO".
I went to a "home meeting" because I was told I would get answers to questions I had concerning the business part of getting involved in this "Innovative home based Direct Distributorship". What I ended up being exposed to was a hyped up "feel good" session with no substance. Listening to seemingly endless "testimonials" on how you could be a success too. I quickly realized I would not get a straight answer until I had committed to doing this.
I was surprised at how this 'in home' meeting mimicked the weekly meetings held at a local hotel, complete with loud, get your heart pumping music every time someone got up to speak. There was virtually nothing said that actually dealt with business ! Or at least what dealt with what I consider a business venture and I have looked at several.
I have met with several people that were in Amway at one time or another and the common feeling was one's energies were best spent elsewhere.
I have nothing against these people, it's just that I now feel they have been bitten by the get rich quick bug.
Thanks again for your response, and I'm glad their are people like you who at the very least give plenty of food for thought.
Thanks for your home page. I'm sitting here writing this when I might have otherwise been listening to a speil from one of the distributors in Scotland. I think Amway must be increasing their presence here, as I've been approached twice in the last two months by different people. I knew there was something wrong, because the profits they claimed were acheivable can only be got by *someone* selling a lot of products, and noone seemed to agree with me.
Anyway, thanks for your efforts.
I have recently been approached by an Amway representative and read your saved articles from AOL users. They were all negative and were from the year of '93. Do you know of any recent articles from both disgruntled Amway people and others that were happy with it? I guess the ones that are happy with it are the ones that may be brain washed.
I had been into Amway before and never got anywhere. This was also the year that all of your articles came from. I'm just wondering if things have changed for Amway or not. They have teamed up with another group called 'BRITT'. Have you heard anything on them? Hope that you can help me.
Thanks a lot for the information on your Amway: The Untold Truths page. It is exactly what I was looking for at the time when I need to persuade someone against joing Amway. I think this info will do it.
Thanks for posting this page on the net. It has been a real eye-opener. I only wish my husband and I hadn't wasted thousands of dollars before we found out.
Keep up the good work. People really need to know what is going on. I am tempted to go to one last function and pass out copies of all this information.
Everyone has the ability to chose their destiny, if you are so week as to follow someone else blindly..then they will choose your destiny.
The simple answer to all of this is…if you don't like it get out! Stop whinning about your failures; learn from your mistake and go on with your life. If you need help try reading an excellant book "7 Habits for Highly Effective People". Dr Covey can teach you how not to be a reactionary, instead become a proactive person and do something with your life! This is just wallowing in misery.
Like the great comic Bobcat Golthwait said "On the day you were born GOD stood with your brains in one hand and no brains in the other. He pondered what was in each hand and said…"Brains…No Brains…Brains… NO BRAINS--GOOD LUCK!!"
--------There it is GOOD LUCK!
dear shwartz i'dlike to know how you get all your billions of dollars…i am a student of law ..is this sistem legal.?..describe me how many times i will get 21%Now i am 6% by thank you!!!!
I know of several people who Amway is definately not adding anything positive to their lives or, more importantly, their children's life. But, the brainwashing and programming is strong. I thought that maybe some of the Facts and articles in the Untold truths would help and give me some sort of ammunition but when I clicked on the subtitles I got, "FILE NOT FOUND'. Is there some other way to receive this info or do you know where I can get some info to successfully deprogram them another way. Any info would be appretiated.
ps. I was once a distributor also- I know the routine.
Why the vendetta?
You do know, don't you, that there are lines of sponsorship that don't do mway like Yaeger/Britt?
I took the kit back to my "foster sponsors" and they accepted it without a problem. They are very gracious people. I hope for their sakes that they are making something at this business. They are "Ruby Directs" but I don't know if they are really making Ruby volume or not.
I went to the library and took out the book by Stephen Butterfield called, "Amway, The Cult of Free Enterprize." He had some good points, but I lot of what he said against the system was not that convincing. I found what was said on your Web site far more to the point. Butterfield was opposed to the propogation of high moral values. Here I disagree with him. But one thing he said that struck me was that the ones who were very successful with the business were the ones who did exactly what they were told, without question, totally trusting their upline, and virtually worshipping the higher pins.
He said he had no doubt that people could make money at the business, but at cost of individuality. I think this business could work without the Yager system. And it could work a lot better without the high prices. But for now I am reducing my costs and trying to get a little perspective on things before I get in too deep. I have only three people in Canada signed up, but I have five in China, and one of the Chinese ones signed up a guy in Europe. That may eventually mean some money for my upline directs and diamonds, but I wouldn't get anything from their business unless I reach at least the level of Silver producer.
My Chinese friend was very excited when he first signed up. I sent him $100 American dollars to sign up, but he had signed up, and signed four of his close relatives up before I received the money I sent him. I didn't want for him to have to make a big investment in this business over there before being sure it would be profitable.
I didn't hear from him for a long time, and then recently he wrote me to say that he didn't think he could successfully do this business, because he and all of the people in his sphere of influence only make about 300 of their dollars per month, and one liter of soap cost 118 dollars. He said their was no complaints with the soap, but locally, equivalent soap was very very cheap, and people don't trust a stranger selling soap so he couldn't market it successfully to people he might have more money to buy it.
He is a former Kidney specialist 65 years of age, and his hopes were lifted up high only to be dashed, after he and his family have invested at least 4,000 of their dollars in this business. This is what really saddens me. I thought I was helping him out, but it seems that I have worsened his situation by getting him into Amway.
What is up with you and the Amway business? I read some of your findings and I am amazed at how someone can come to the conclusions you come to. Yes, there are and have been idiots in the Amway business. Just like there are in whatever business you are in. Amway is pure free enterprise and frankly, most people will not make. Just like most people will not make it with any financial dignity in a job. Mr. Schwartz, you say you hit the silver level…how many PV checks were you paying out? What was the structure of your business? Did you build the business with people or did you have a great deal of volume coming from one or two legs? You can take any type of information and skew it to fit whatever scenario you would like. I hope you are pleased with what you have done. Some brand new person in the business get in, reads you inconsistancies and your incredible logic, and loses their dream. Yeah, you make think that sounds corny but every great man and woman in this ! country has been a visionary. It really disturbs me that you are such a pessimistic, negative sort. What in the world do you know about the Amway business that the CEO's of America's top companies doesn't know? Do you think if Amway was a it was portrayed, Coca-Cola or the NBA would attach their name to it? In closing, I know this. The Amway business is what is right about this country. It is a grassroots movement of people helping people help themselves. I am on the Britt-Miller team. Both are filthy, hog-nasty rich. Both have developed huge networks that earn them lots of money on books, tapes, and speaking. But you know what - they have helped many other people be successful. Money is nothing more than the indicator of the amount of service provided to your fellow man. I know this, two years ago, I was broke, my wife was working, and I was miserable. Because of Bill Britt and some others, my life has been changed. Am I brainwashed? You better believe it! Just like I was brainwashed with job mentality.
I am glad you can't relate to what I am saying. That lets me know I am on track. I think your life will be miserable by living to tear down something as great as Amway. I wish you the very best, however, and hope that you can see the error of your ways. You shouldn't have quit! If you want to write me, you can at *.
Here's some feedback from a distributor in International Connection.
First, some perspective on lines of sponsorship.
Historically, for years probably the two biggest Amway los were the Yaeger/Britt and WDA (World Wide Diamond) organizations. WDA was the downline of Crown Ambassadors Dan and Bunny Williams. Both of these organizations are downline from Crown Ambassadors Charlie and Elsie Marsh. Yaeger may be personally sponsored by the Marshs and the Williams' are sponsored by Triple Diamonds BIll and Jan Campbell who are sposored by the Marshs.
About 5 years ago, as I understand, the Williams decided to semi-retire and cease being the titular head of the line. They decided to plug into Jody Victor whose folks Joe and ? are upline from the Marshs. Jody plugs into Dexter. Some of the WDA Diamonds followed Dan, and some chose not to.
Those who did not, formed International Connection, with a system, a code of ethics, etc.
There are about 60 Diamonds in the US affliated with IC, with several los represented. And they are an eclectic group, certainly not cookie cutter clones.
Some of the Diamonds you may be familiar with who were WDA pins are Kelly and Jan Brown, Mel and Bea Benke, Jim and Juanice Ward, Triples Brian and Marg Hayes (Brian is President of IC), Doubles Lew and Darlene Riggan, Pam and Dorsey Deaton, Pat and John Vaughn, and Executive Diamonds Pat and Beatty Kaufman. Some of the non WDA pins who chose to affiliate with IC are Diamonds John and Barb Villani and Johnny and Jo Edwin, Doubles Tom and Joy Trozera, Crowns Dennis and Kay Beecher and Crown Ambassadors John and Pat Hendrickson
Interestingly, some of thses folks begat some enormous organizations which aren't part of IC. For example, 50% of Amway Japan is down one of the Edwin's legs; a slew of Crowns from California including Jim and Nancy Dornan (Network 21) is another of the Edwin's legs; and the INA organization is one of the Kaufman's legs.
The difference in operations:
Having begun the business in Atlanta, I have definite awareness of how some lines pursue their business (i.e. your info).
Most of the Amway systems are similar in their emphasis on tapes, books and functions being important tools for those distributors who desire to build networks. As a Regional Sales Manager for a Fortune 100 company, I am aware of the necessity for the appropriate information to be deseminated. Part of the conundrum in Amway is the those who do not use the tools and patterns don't grow organizations to direct and beyond. In IC things are kept in perspective. There are no demands with regard to these tools. Use or attendence is voluntary. People who choose not to participate are not ostracized. The tools are reasonably priced (I don't see the pins getting rich from the flow). There is a cheerfully administered refund policy. We've never been chastised for not attending a function.
Here in California we have 2 or 3 Moving Up Seminars per year. The investment is usually $75 per person for seminar fees and the banquet. Accomodations and meals are additional. The organizers arrange special rates at these first class hotels (Hyatt, Red Lion, etc.) usually $69 per night. On three day weekends, we pay for 2 nights and get the 3rd free. Also, if for some reason someone cannot attend the weekend, the registration fee is rolled over to the next.
Another thing that I appreciate about IC is that the reglious fevor that seems to grip some other lines does not exist. Although many folks are christians of varying denominations, there is a sesitivity to those of other faiths. My wife and I are Jewish folks from NYC and we're real comfortable with the environment. Heck, our sponsor and Emerald was head of AV for the Baptist Home Mission Board and they've become among our closest friends.
I could probably go on and on…hope this helps. You can call my Amvox * and leave your number if you want to talk live, or just e-mail me back.
I wanted you to know I found the information on these pages very interesting. My brother and his wife have just begun as Amway distributers and are completely convinced that they are going to be rich beyond their wildest dreams in 3-5 years.
I have tried to tell him about the realities of Amway. I try to show him the statistics, the things that have been said about the company from former distributers, but he refuses to listen. Whenever I show him some info that I have found, he claims that all the bad things are either untrue or are related to the regular old Amway.
Which brings me to my dilemma, he says that the organization he is involved with is not Amway, but it is called World Wide Dream Builders. It is still Amway, but he tries to tell me that it is some sort of seperate entity apart the normal Amway that has a much higher success rate due to the fact that each person who sponsers another ensures that they are completely and correctly trained in the business.
Therefore any negative article or information I show him, he claims is not World Wide Dream Builders, but is just plain old Amway. (I still am not sure of the difference.) It looks to me like Amway has spun off a group of its successful people in order to make the statistics sound better. (By the way he says he is told that WWDB does not publish its own statistics sheet - fishy huh?) Have you heard of this World Wide Dream Builders group, and do you have any information that mentions this group in particlar. I would love to see anything you may know of, magazine or newspaper articles etc.
Thanks for any help you may give.
Hi, I just came across your page about the Amway Corp. and I wanted to ask you a few questions.
1.)Have you ever been involved w/ Amway?
2.)Whether or not you have been involved, what has caused you to so intensely dislike and try to discredit this company (or "cult")?
3.)Are you really concerned about people getting involved or are you angry because it didn't work for you or maybe the jerk down the street tried to get you "into" this and turned you off?
To be sure there are Amway distributors that are less than ideal but I don't believe you can judge the corp. or 2 mil other people by the ones that get in to make a fast buck and therefor use other people. My experience w/Amway has been very good. And even tho I am not an "active" distributor some of my best friends are and have never tried to force or co-erce me into anything. I am thankful to live in a country that promotes the free enterprise system and I believe Amway is one of the best examples of what we stand for as a country. Now, that's just my opinion and if you differ, more power to ya!
My name is *, and I am an Amway Distributor. I am also employed by DuPont. Since I recently got on the internet, I have been poking around about information about Amway and stumbled upon the info from Jason.
I am rather disturbed by the fact that you include no e-mail, letters, or any other type of correspondence from successful distributors. I have only read about distributors who quit. Needless to say, I believe many people feel better after venting about their losses, but I have yet to see any information from anyone who made it to Emerald, Diamond, or even Ruby. I guess these disgruntled people to me seem like ex-IBMers who never made it into the higher levels of management.
I am in the Britt line of sponsorship, and I have yet to be forced to buy anything, go to any function, or read any books. Those "tools" which I do use are those I choose to purchase. As a matter of fact, my tax refund last year from the deductions I made as a business owner (yes, I don't work for Amway or Britt), covered all my business expences. I suppose all those people in your testimonies just don't know how to handle money.
Nevertheless, I appreciate that you have a place for failures in Amway can flock. This gives them something to keep their mind off the face that, if you fail in Amway, you'll fail in life.
I find your information about the Amway Opportunity and the Distributor Organizations laughable and negative.
I've been involved with the Amway business for awhile and most of assertions formed by you and other Distributors are ridiculous. Your letters about Tools are far-fetched. If you understood that there are plenty of people that will always make excuses for failing, you would understand how silly your attempt is to discredit this wonderful opportunity.
By the way, since you don't know, there is a buy-back rule in most organization's for tools. I've returned plenty without any problem.
The only reason I'm sending this message to you is to give you a little feedback that's positive and truthful since you seek only negative feedback!!!
Jason/ I find your page interesting, but the lawsuit in my opinion has no shot. The people filing the suit don't have a clue how to beat Yager. In my opinion Britt is untouchable. He has always done things right. He is clean. Yager could be another story altogether. He does not have the brains Britt does.He is vulnerable but not the way they are going about it.
Get a life.
thank you for making this information available. I was approached by an acquaintance a few nights ago to join Amway and was instantly susupicious. You saved me from spending my weekend in the library to confirm that suspicion. I am printing out all the articles and giving them to my potential sponsor- hopefully he'll read it and quit tomorrow. Good luck.
Thanks for the anti-amway information…as a couple presently being "seduced" by The Plan we are interested in any and all information relating to the other side of the arguement.
We are rational, educated, well-balanced, and happy people who can see the potential $$$ making involved in a system like this, but we just don't need the hype…or the mystery!
Thanks again…you may turn out to be out beacon of light as we approach the shores of what could be a treacherous journey…please send info specific to the Class Action suit if you have anything!!! Thanks again!!!
Thank you for your home page about Amway. I was approached by my exercise instructor. I was very hesistant because I've been burned more than once by the so called multi-level marketing. Well anyway I decided that I'll keep an open mind to listen to the tapes she lend to me. I would say that they are very entertaining and I was sure happy for their found success and happiness. And my questions in my mind was answered by your home page. Example why is that after every tape it will say this was produced independently from Amway. I found out why. The price comparison was so helpful. That was my other question, is it really cheaper. And the money you make is so real, $69.00 per month. I could go on and on.
I'm glad that there are people like you to thank to prevent people like me to be taken. I told her that I don't want to attend any meetings because they are just hyped. I'm been to so many they don't teach they just get you all motivated which is good but they hide the truth. You know what elase bother me is they lie about the cost to get in the business. Yes $130.00 to join but all the expenses after is another story. I can't thank you enough for all your hard work to put your page together. Keep up the good work. I'll print your home page for her. I wish she will succeed but in the same time I'll try to open her eyes.
This is my first time entering the WWW. I decided to see what information was available on the Web concerning Amway. My husband and I have been Amway distributors for 1 1/2 years. We've been up and down with trying to make our business a success. We are on tape of the week, which includes 2 tapes called "tape of the week" and "go getter tape". The cost for these tapes are $5.00 each. Total monthly charges are $40.00 plus shipping & handling (4%). Also there is a Voice mail service called "Amvox" and this is used as a means of communicating it costs & 16.95 per month plus you are charged each time you access your voice mail, monthly total is about $30.00- 35.00. Next is the the cost of the items, everything you buy is charged at a wholesale price but then you have to pay for shipping, handling and the normal taxes in your area. We have to do product pick up (at our sponsors house) which means driving 30 miles each week for perhaps a tube of toothpaste. There are many hidden costs.
Recently we've become disenchanted with this whole "system". What happens is once you join as a distributor you are somewhat brow beatened to "plug into the system" or you are simply not committed. We certainly didn't want to appear "uncommitted" so we made sure we followed all the advice from our glorious upline. We didn't want to be viewed as "quitters" or "losers" for that matter.
What sparked our interest initially was the pitch on becoming financially free shown during our 1st viewing of the "Plan". It portrayed the American Dream as a dying commodity in these United States and Amway was a way to ride the wave above this. Being somewhat disillusioned with gettin a good education, work hard and be ambitious and you'll eventually be successful we thought Amway was just what we were looking for. Wow, we had finally found a way through hard work to become "free". Well as time went on we showed the business to our relatives, friends and acquaintences. We sponsored a total of 3 couples- whom quit after 1-2 months. We've attended functions and rallies 4,000 miles away, being told this was a must and would be the launching pad to financial fortune. We've been at our sponsors and seen performance bonus checks just casually laying around and I sometimes wonder if these were ploys to get us "fired up"? The checks were quite remarkable $4,000.00 per month, $6,800.00 per month, etc.--just for a little soap business. We wanted to believe this could work for us as well. I guess we were just wanting to believe how wonderful things could be.
Well in the course of our "financially free" business we've probably "invested" about $3,000.00 to $4,000.00 mostly being "tools", "Seminars", "rallies" and some products and our total bonus checks have amounted to a whopping grand total of $100.00 or less.
I'm glad I read your information, I now am grateful that we will no longer be "investing" in the fortunes of others. We have learned some valuable lessons. I'm sure once we quit this business we will be termed "losers"-but I won't be losing money any more.
On the bright side, I have found that most of the people in our group are some of the nicest people I've ever met--however, you wonder how much was genuine and how much was just a show. I'm sure this isn't the first letter of this nature but I felt the need to share some of our experiences for the benefit of others.
Once I am done on the Web I plan on packing up all of the tapes, tools and paperwork and just writing this off as a learning experience. I could go on and on since I see everything in a different light now but I think I covered most what I had to say.
Thank you for researching this information and sharing with us. I certainly feel that now it isn't "just us" that its not working for. We will no longer be having our "pity parties" or beating ourselves up because we aren't keeping up with our sponsors. I feel better already.
Very good, thank you for saving my butt I almost sign up to be a distributor. I have a feeling it will be like you described but I was willing to give it a try. THANK YOU! Keep up the good work
Hello, from Des Moines, Iowa. My wife and I are in the Yager/Meadows/Gulick organization. I have run across people like yourself who have been exposed to Amway and have come away with a bad impression. We have been fortunate enough, it seems, to be involved in a line of sponsorship that believes in the values that Amway was founded upon. I realize that you cannot believe everything you read or see, even if published in books, but the fact remains, many people have become very wealthy using the Yager system. (forgive the one line writing-style, this is my first time on the Web)
Dear Jason, This is not hate mail. I'm sure you get many inquiries as to why your home page even exists. Perhaps you have been a distributor at one time and didn't get out of it what you may (or may not) have put into it. I don't know your situation and won't hazard to guess, but I've met quite a few great people in this organization. As well, I have gained from it financial stability. Also, your section on "cult" had no correlation to Amway. My friends in Amway are very Christian people, as a matter of fact, however, they have never offered any religious preference or declaration to me unless I asked for that information. I'm not sorry that you feel such animosity toward Amway, but I do believe that you've been misguided. If you would like any information, however, it appears you've done very thorough and unbiased research, please feel free to contact me at the above address.
My Father and Amway
Intellectually, I am not worried. After all, my father is a well- educated, worldly, 50+ year-old, who also happens to be a church minister, so of course he could not be fooled into joining a cult.
Emotionally, however, I feel there is a problem. I can't see anything bad about Amway < yet> , but I can't see the wonderful, fantastic stuff my father sees.
Maybe it is the bath he took on a real estate deal recently. Maybe it is his age (close to retirement, thinking he needs more retirement money). Maybe it is just me, at 31, growing-up and preparing mentally for looking after my parents some day, and being over- protective. And maybe, just maybe, there is some truth to this gut feel I have, that this Amway stuff is a scam and one day we will all be sorry.
I am a natural skeptic and I hate the 'hard sell'. My father is trusting and loves to buy- and-sell for profit. So I am naturally worried when he phones me < long distance> and all he does is talk to me and my wife about Amway. Is he going to throw his retirement funds away on this crap? How can he be so dumb as to start feeding me the same sales script they feed everyone?
I feel I need to do something to get my father to see the light. I found your web site today and I am starting to read. Are there other resources, web-based or otherwise? Should I really be worried? Is the Amway of the 90's the same as the 60-80's Amway? I could probably write dozens more questions, but I won't.
Any pointers you can provide would be appreciated.
I bet you get lots of Email like this, but thanks for maintaing a storehouse of information about Amway that comes from someone other than Amway itself.
I was solicited to join The System using The Plan today and reacted very negatively… now I am much more confident intellectually that my gut feeling was right.
Listen.. you're doing damage you don't mean to do.. We're doing fine in INA/Amway and none of the things you've reported are true of our experience..
Dear Mr Schwartz,
I am an amway distributor, and have gone through most of material tonight. I don't know your state of mind, but I am (possibly foolishly) assuming that you are an intelligent rational person who might have some things a little out of perspecitve.
First, I will agree with you that anyone who gets told that they can build a secondary income that could eventually replace the primary income for only $130 has been misled. And anyone who has been told that they can build that kind of income on less that a consistent 10 to 15 hour a week effort excluding travel time has been misled. And I believe that people also need to understand product promotion is an important part of this business.
So, now that I know what you don't like, let me find out if you know something that a lot of people need to hear about:
What other kind of business offers the kind of imcome this business can generate with an investment as small as this one requires, using your own numbers.
What other kind of business can I start that if I take off for a month due to family problems, the business will continune to grow?
What other kind of business can I build around my schedule that will allow me to maintain my primary income until I don't need it anymore? I personally know several perople who did just that.
What other kind of business allows me to immediately stop spending into the business if I need to do that for a while, without shutting the business down?
What other kind of business gives me business partners that I don't pay, and successful mentors that have a financial incentive to see me suceed?
As far as motivation goes, I believe that you are aware that every successful business in the world relies upon motivaton, Logic is only used to justify a decision or to prevent action on a bad decision. Logic never actually motivates a human to do anything. Every MBA is familiar with Industrial Psycology, which is used to maintain people at lower wages than they are worth by convincing them that they are inadequate in so many areas that they do not have the confidence to "test the market". It also encourages using fear as a motivator because it allows you to reward the person by letting them keep their job while those with the MBAs get to keep the bonus money since they are too educated to fall for the fear-motivation and self- worth attacks that they use on others. Now compare that with a Amway seminar where they try to undo the damage done by Industrial Psycology and convince people that they can succeed despite of their short- comings. Yes, the seminars o go 01:00am, but you are trying to get as much information into one weekend as you can so that they don't have to miss time from work to attend these seminars. (Since you are so concerned about cost, wouldn't you rather stay till 01:00 am which you probably do anyway on Friday and Saturday night rather than miss a day of wages.) Now from my point of view, I am going to be motivated one way or the other, and I would rather be motivated my increasing my self-worth, than by having it attacked. Wouldn't that be your preference too?
I would enjoy hearing from you, but please understand that I am not even a Direct Distributor yet because I haven't done the work consistently yet, not becuase the system doesn't work. Therfore. the opinions expressed here are only my own. Please understand that I am writing you because I respect you. If I didn't I wouldn't have bothered. I am hoping that you can share with me a business plan that provides everything this one has, but without the short comings as you see them. Until I see such a plan, I believe that I am doing whats best for me, my family and my business partners. Like our Country, it isn't perfect, but it's the best that there is.
dear jason, I have been reading your information on amway and have found it to be very interesting since you have failed in amway have you found any other opportunities that you have been successful in? Sounds like you are looking for a pie in the sky opportunity where no investment is involved. Maybe you feel by sitting in front of the T.V. or playing Softball will get you FREE. If so I wish you the best!
God bless you. I pray for you in you ignorance and hope that Christ will forgive you. Amway is the best thing that has ever happened to me and my family, and I find it hard to understand why you would try to steal peoples dreams by maintaining this site. You must be very bitter. I WILL pray for you.
What qualifies you as an expert in this matter or were did you not have the guts to make it work?
I have been in Amway twice, the first time was just a kit and nothing else, the second time I practiced 'The System' until I was at the 2500 level. I was then spoken to as an insider, and much more was allowed to reach my ears. The vast majority of information read on your page I have seen or suspected. My invovement will terminate at the end of this year, when my renewal comes up. My downline has been told what I heard and suspected. Many believed me, since some of them now realize that such thoughts had been running around in the back of their heads, but did not surface to active conciousness until I said something. I Applaud your page, and ask you how it is funded. If anything is needed, please give me an email. I will not be able or willing to give alot, but I can assist.
You obviously don't understand the free enterprise system in this country. I challenge you to get involved for six months in the Yager system and then come and tell me that you recieved no benefit from. If you really understood the system and the lifes that it has changed for the better, you would not be spreading this garbage. Tag, your it!
I FIND YOUR INFORMATION ON THE AMWAY BUSINESS TO BE VERY BIASED TO SAY THE LEAST. I HAVE KNOWN SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO HAVE ENTERED THIS BUSINESS AND HAVE DONE VERY WELL FOR THEMSELVES. YOU MAY ASK WHY I AM SENDING THIS MESSAGE. IT IS VERY SIMPLE, "DON'T KNOCK IT UNTIL YOU HAVE TRIED IT." I OWN SEVERAL OF MY OWN BUSINESSES AND SEE THE AMWAY BUSINESS AS A MEANS FOR PEOPLE OF LESSER SOCIO- ECONOMIC STATUS TO REACH OUT OF POVERTY AND A LIFE OF UNHAPPINESS. I SEE A BEAUTIFUL GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE AMWAY LIFE STYLE. I CALL IT A LIFE STYLE BECAUSE I NOTICE THE SPIRITUAL ASPECT. MANY AMWAY DISTRIBUTORS SEEM TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS COVETED. THE FEELING TO BELONG IS NOT PRESENT. HOWEVER, THE NEED TO SUCCEED IN BUSINESS (LIFE) IS REMARKABLY PRESENT.
LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK. FROM ONE MAN TO ANOTHER. BE HONEST, I WAS.